Trinamics 2130 / 2208

New Home Forum Random or Off Topic Trinamics 2130 / 2208

This topic contains 24 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Bill 3 days, 20 hours ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
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  • #110500

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Okay I feel like I am missing something here.

    Why in the heck is everyone running these drivers now? Please tell me it is not for the silent operation….

    Lets just eliminate the 2130’s as I can not see sensorless homing being useful for us. Am I wrong, is it accurate enough to go through the hassle to skip the endstops?

    So that brings us to the 2208, okay so max with a fan they are getting 1.2A to drive the steppers. That doesn’t even track with all the people trying to cram nema 23’s and weed wacker motors on the CNC’s. We are running conservatively 1.4A no fan with room to grow with the drv8825’s as is. Most swear they need more power but now everyone is okay with considerably less?

    I really want there to be a less expensive board with “digipots” but these skr and gen l’s are not it are they? Am I missing something?

     

    On that note if the Archim firmware gets worked out I really want to drop the rambo’s, buy only Archim’s that might bring the quantity up enough for me get a lower cost and to drop the prices some. At least to Rambo prices if not lower. Still….running 8825’s….

    #110504

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    On some boards, like the ramps, they do let you adjust the max current like digipots.

    They give you feedback about errors.

    Sensorless homing is nice on 3D printers, at least. Less wires.

    They seem to drive smoother, not just quieter. I think they do more smoothing between steps and emulate the 1/256 steps of some 32bit boards with 1/16th steps.

    Tom said (while he was sponsored) that he thought they would do a little better with the same current max. Hard to trust a sponsored comment and I don’t have a good way to test.

    They can be ran cooler, not useful for CNCs, but for printers, you could have a lower current setting for slow moves and more current for higher speed moves. We’d want the opposite, really.

    Plus, they are quiet :). They definitely seem more like a strong brushless motor than a cranky old grindy motor. I think it’s mostly psycological, but it has a real feeling of increased quality. I also think lower acceleration limits make a cnc feel like higher quality. It’s not born in logic, it’s emotion.

    In my personal experience, I like them a lot of printers. The quiet is enough to sell me and the other features are gravy.

    I haven’t tried them on the cnc, but I would guess my favorite feature is them telling me after a job was ruined that the problem was overheating, a wiring problem, or too much torque for the current. That would be worth the $40 or so more for them (I’ve only used the cheap ones).

    #110505

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Hmmm, I watched a ton of videos and read what I could find about them. there are more niche testers out there running them hard and data tracking.

    They are pretty complicated and the options do have to be weighed. I have a skr1.3 and uart 2208’s coming, just in case. I suppose I can do a quick and dirty strength test. Offering a less expensive option would be nice, if they are good quality.

     

    #110537

    Tim
    Participant

    I don’t have a source for this but I swear I remember reading that the sensorless homing was accurate to less than 1 thou with our gearing?

     

    https://www.v1engineering.com/forum/topic/sensorless-dual-endstops-and-stall-detection-trinamics/

    “First, the accuracy of the stall detection is good to 1 stop at best and 4 at worst. Assuming the worst case scenario of 4 stops, that’s 1/50mm at our current 200 steps/mm X/Y settings, or less than one thou.”

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Tim.
    #110544

    geodave
    Participant

    I am in the process of switching the Rambo board on my Makerfarm 10″ Prusa i3v  to an SKR V1.3 & the 2208 V3 steppers.  I probably should have gotten the 2208 soldered for the uart mode.  Those are really small pads to solder together & not sure I could successfully do it.   My reason for the change is for smoother prints.  I have not found any solution to get rid of the salmon skin on edge of prints & this seems like it might fix it.   My current problem is re-crimping the dupont ends to the JST ends.  I have 2 done & 3 more to go.  I bought a special crimper for it.  Seems like someone should have a dupont to JST board converter to make it simpler to change over to newer boards without having to re-crimp everything.  Of course that is 2 extra connections on each wire.  Seems like all the motor wires I have seen also have dupont connectors on the board end.  The motors on my MF are hardwired on the motor end, but it would be nice to find some cables that have the plug connections for the motors & the JST 4 pin connectors for the board.  Are there any cables like that out there?  I also thought the Rambo board used these same JST connections, but they don’t fit on that board after making these new connections, so no going back now. Why can’t everyone use the same  type of connection or at least have some sort of conversion board between them?  Ryan, I bet if you made one of these boards you could sell a bunch of them.

    #110567

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    What uses jst?

    That seems to be the best part of the SKR, no extra wires uart or SPI, it is all done with jumpers.

     

    Shoot I just tried to change my order to a skr 1.1 pro….6 drivers means no more dual endstop pins edits and digi pots.

    As for the sensorless homing, this is giving some other info, https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Stall_detection_and_sensorless_homing

    #110568

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I get that they might be a little better suited for 3D printing but not so much CNC. I also might be wrong with the max amperage, some seem to be rated at RMS instead…so 1.2A RMS is actually pretty good I feel.

    I am getting the feeling the importing (30% tax) SKR pro and buying 5 genuine 2208 drivers is going to be a very similar price to the Archims. Choosing between Ultimachine and Importing is a no brainier. The downside to me buying in bulk is shipping and import tax, when ya’ll buy one it fits in a E-packet so $1 shipping subsidized by the US gov and no import tax. In the end I rarely get things less expensive that you do when importing.

    #110575

    geodave
    Participant

    The motor & endstop connectors on the SKR board use the JST style(Maybe they are called something else also) .  I also was sold on the fact this board requires no jumpers.  Now that I have all the wires re-crimped, it looks pretty good & very quiet.  Here are the connectors I bought. https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-Sets-JST-XH-2-54mm-2-3-4Pin-Male-and-Female-Housing-Connector-with-Crimp/272565109526?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

    #110579

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Oh man…. That is a no go. Dam why the heck would they change that?

    #110584

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I personally prefer jst. They lock and are cheaper than the molex ultimachine uses. They will fit dupont in there in a pinch.

    #110665

    Alex
    Participant

    I did experiment with 2208 v1.1 in UART mode on my printer (with SKR 1.3) and found that it can only work with 16 microsteps for me. Anything finer than 16 will produce layer shifts. 2208s maybe a little quieter than 8825s with 32 microsteps, but does it matter for CNC machine :)?

    #110883

    Mike
    Participant

    My ender5 board died this weekend so I put my duet 2 on it.  All the connections on the ender were dupont. The duet was all just. Spent hours converting the plugs from one to the other

     

    #111160

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    But wait, there’s more!

    Well my board showed up, no drivers, grrrrr.

    Anywho, I kept poking around. Turns out there is a 2209, it seems to combine the best of both 2130 and 2208. Then….they even made a 5160 which seems to be a less hot version of the 2209. So 5160 it is (if Marlin is compatible yet).

    I do thinks this illustrates a solid issue I have been having with the trinamics from day 1. They are not stable yet. I am sure they are freaking amazing drivers but if every two months the newer better version comes out and it is the same price I am will to wait a bit. Personally I will try something soon, but as a seller of easy to use kits…trinamics are not going to be included anytime soon I wouldn’t think.

    Cool info in an easy to find format. Links to the data sheets as well.

    https://learn.watterott.com/silentstepstick/

    #111161

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Someone had a review on the latest versions, including some higher amperage ones…

    I personally really like the einsy board in my 3D printer. It makes it 100x easier to use to have it all in one PCB. If there’s a similar thing in a CNC style board, I would take a look at that, Ryan.

    #111162

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I did experiment with 2208 v1.1 in UART mode

    Shoot I wonder why a 32bit board would have any issues with 32-256 micro-stepping. It could be one of the many configurable options in the drivers settings  themselves?

    #111166

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    If there’s a similar thing in a CNC style board, I would take a look at that, Ryan.

    That is the crazy part, the skr pro doesn’t need the extra wires (for uart or spi) and it has 6 driver bays so no pin swapping in the firmware for dual firmware. Of course it is preferred to have the driver dissipate into a large copper board but as much as it pains me to say it that skr pro is pretty close and I am seriously considering offering it as an option if I can get a handle on the driver situation and the price is a significant cost savings in the kit.

    #111167

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Dang Teaching Tech is all over this stuff!

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #111169

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    That’s right. That’s the one I saw.

    #111172

    Rob
    Participant

    If you still do the pin swapping on the SKR Pro, you got place to use a 4th axis and auto-squaring

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Rob.
    #111173

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    You don’t need to pin swap a rotational axis would just use the extruder driver. But you would then need CAM for that. Doing an axis swap you can just use regular CAM. Adding axes gets extremely complicated with CAM but has already been possible even on a mini.

    #111900

    David Walling
    Participant

    Maybe I’ll finally have an excuse to upgrade my ramps board to something newer.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by  David Walling.
    #111933

    Aaron
    Participant

    I replaced my ender 3’s board with the custom TH3d one, they have the 2208/2209 soldered onto the board with the correct number of copper layers, automotive fuse, big mosfet, etc. Idk if that helps

    #114700

    David Walling
    Participant

    I know there’s been other stuff going on, but Have you made any progress on this?

    I’m really interested in these boards.

    #114704

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I have not plugged mine in yet. I started to update the firmware so I can. I ran the printers all yesterday on the current firmware, I will try and get the CNC firmware updated and tested today, then I can maybe start adding a test branch for this. For anyone else reading this at this time I do not intend to maintain a branch/fork for this board just want to try it out.

    #114727

    Bill
    Participant

    You shouldn’t need to maintain a separate branch, just keep your stuff relatively current and the Marlin folks will merge the needed board changes in so the adjustments to your firmware will be minimal.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
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