Tom is about to do his build…

New Home Forum Updates Tom is about to do his build…

This topic contains 444 replies, has 71 voices, and was last updated by  Janus 3 hours, 18 minutes ago.

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  • #110640

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Wonder if he has been incognito in the forums??

    5 users thanked author for this post.
    #110642

    Barry
    Participant

    Yea, this is going to be a fun series to watch.  I’ve also mentioned to Joel that he needs to build one of these.

    #110643

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Well, live streams are so unpredictable. We’ll see. I am guessing the first part one will be pretty boring just putting together rollers. The gantry though could be super fun or frustration inducing.

    #110649

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I am really worried that of all the different printers used to print the parts that some are bound to be all sorts of not accurate or leaning, or whatever and the final build could be all wonky. I guess it comes down to the gantry pieces mainly. I just doubt that of all the machines getting used and moved around accuracy is probably not tested, as in axes perpendicularity, not just basic tests.

    #110661

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I just doubt that of all the machines getting used and moved around accuracy is probably not tested, as in axes perpendicularity, not just basic tests.

    If the mpcnc needs an accurate printer, most of use wouldn’t have one :). It will work well enough.

    5 users thanked author for this post.
    #110687

    That’s great. It was Tom’s video at MRRF that got me interested.

    #110724

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I was sooooo nervous for that interview. I am pretty sure Barry laughed at me most of the day for being so anxious…dam cameras are intimidating.

    #110738

    Barry
    Participant

    Started!

    #110739

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    😯

    #110740

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Well, dang. He deleted the file. When did he say he would come back, later or tomorrow? I never got a notification.

    #110741

    Jamie
    Participant

    he said later today, in like an hour.  he also forgot to set the stream public at first, so people didn’t get the notifications on time

    #110742

    Barry
    Participant

    Well, at least there’s a new Boltr to watch from AvE.

    #110743

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Thanks

    #110747

    Barry
    Participant
    #110755

    Jamie
    Participant

    He kept referring to it as “closed source” which doesn’t seem quite right to me but I guess it’s a question of semantics.  “Open source” means different things to different people.

    Ryan, what’s your general attitude toward MPCNC-compatible parametric replacement parts?  Derivatives are non-commercial, I would expect, but is that the only concern?  Brand new third party MPCNC-compatible parts, the more the merrier?

    #110763

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    This can be a very touchy subject as there are some extremely passionate that feel strongly about this stuff, so I will try to be careful here.

    I personally do not call it open sourced and it certainly is not closed sourced. I call it open, but not open sourced, and I have to say it that way or risk offending people.

    Parametric replacements, okay, love it actually if they are done correctly. I believe GeoDave already has an entire parametric build out there. The first few months there were so many poor versions out there It got really hard to deal with. The called the parts things like “improved” V2, better, best, must have. People made those parts and things failed and it made me look bad, the bad designers just fade away and I have to deal with the stigma(?) for a long time. So you will see me publicly criticize naming and prefer things like Mod in the title. I will also privately help them see any shortcoming they might have. As you know making these parts almost all parts depend on each other, so just changing the nut hole size for example also moves the screw distance fro the rail, etc, etc. A lot of people do not understand this.

    It is share alike, I would have to recheck but I do not know how that works with the non-commercial aspect but assume it follows as well. If it does and you wanted to sell your own design of course I would grant you the right.

    I do like other parts, imitation is the sincerest flattery, it really is. I was a little offended at Tom’s remark about making all fully open source compatible parts…I am sure that is a license violation and why? Why do you feel the need to do that. He has not used the machine yet and making parts to get around someones license seems rude, please correct me if I took that the wrong way but if you want to improve something or make it work with a sputter gun or auto tool changer I freaking love it! Trying to make something you have never used because you do not agree with the license, strikes me as rude.

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #110767

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I just finished watching. That was fun. I think I caught a glimpse of some enthusiasm when the bearings hit the rails. This is going to be a fun build. It will also be pretty nice since you’ve got good materials to start with and a room full of editors to make sure it’s assembled right.

    His love of socket head screws is going to bite him, I think. Still, he got pretty far in an hour. I think there is some good feedback for Ryan in there too. Like, can you put a tooltip on every word “screw” in your instructions that shows us and metric sizes? Maybe make a note of the max head thickness of the screws?

    I also have to point out, Tom is a smart guy, and he is tightening nuts with three cameras on him. That will always lead to some thoughts becoming vocalized. It’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and be diplomatic. It seems to me that his biggest gripes are related to hardware (screws and nuts). Once he has it assembled, he’ll forget all of that.

    Tom definitely needs some slack for making this live. I wouldn’t be able to do that.

    #110768

    Jamie
    Participant

    Thank you, this makes sense to me.  I appreciate there is a difference between what is legally permitted, what creates practical problems, and what is rude.  I want to make sure I don’t step on toes even if I am technically within my rights.

    I think the idea of an open source clone is a pretty narrow view that fails to appreciate what is happening with MPCNC.  The value isn’t entirely in the design itself but resides also in the community and support.  There are dozens of DIY CNC machines out there, I’m sure some are fully open source; go ahead, knock yourself out, oh by the way you’re on your own.  Making an open source clone is not hard.  Getting the wider system to succeed (meaning viable business, volunteer crew, the whole thing), that’s hard.

    #110769

    Barry
    Participant

    One of the guys in the railcore discord said he needs a trusted person to read the comments and give the valid comments to him.

    #110776

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I guess I totally forgot to give that that sort of feedback. I’m super impressed of how well he did in front of cameras and reading comments and changing camera angles I definitely couldn’t do anything like that he he has some serious skill in that department. This being my first time seeing somebody assemble it like this I have all sorts of things I want to change now those instructions are so old and I can see the validity and a lot of his opinions on it and what could be clarified a bit.

    I had a hard time just trying to listen to him and read the comments I couldn’t imagine building something in the middle all that.

    Once all the little critical things were over it was nice seeing it go together well and fit right. His positive comments and the positivity in the chat. Just takes a minute for me to stop being so protective about it I guess.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Ryan. Reason: clearity
    #110872

    frosty
    Participant
    #110892

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Way more fun today. If you can the Chat keeps this pretty interesting as this goes you can see and hear Tom go through all the things we have all gone through during a build. Super positive and fun (like these forums).

    I am really going to have to step up and fix some parts and instructions after this. I have only seen Gene and Tom build this and they didn’t seem to have any of the same problems. So I will have to re-watch them both and try to fix some things.

    #110896

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    https://grammarist.com/usage/zee-zed/

    ” U.S. pronunciation probably came about by analogy with the letters bee, cee, dee, gee, and so on”

    We can do that? Can we start using the word “wee” instead of “double u”? I guess we’ll need to rethink the song.

    #110902

    Bill
    Participant

    So I’m going to suggest just moving away from nut traps entirely. Leave enough space for a socket to fit and beef up around it if needed. The extra material while printing will be way more than offset by the lack of complaints.

    I’m still waiting for the inevitable “whoops, I put that in backwards” or “darn, I missed that part” that means he gets to take it apart a bit before going forward again. He almost did it with the side rollers… 🙂

    #110904

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    That means larger part, larger footprint, longer print times, smaller build area, weaker part (further from the rail the more the plastic has to carry the load). It also means all the other parts will just get nagging comments. So it is a all or nothing things…I fixed the toolmount and the nut traps and now it is corners and clamps.

    I do get it and I will revisit the corners each iteration has progressed and regressed in a few ways.

    But seriously for years and it has not been all that big of a deal, once he picked up the screw driver (and used it on the right direction of rotation) is wasn’t a big deal for him either. If he wasn’t using a power drill and reading comments while he was doing that it would not have been a big deal I don;t think.

    I have a choice now. I am paying for commercial hardware bagging to free up some engineering time. So now do I iterate the current parts to make 4mm nuts fit better or just keep working on the actual redesign, which I hope to improve rigidity and help with 4mm nuts?

    #110905

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    People complain about assembling ikea furniture, and I can’t think of anything that has had more hours in testing and design to make it easy to assemble. There is no end, the root problem is that smart people have idle minds while turning a screw driver, so they will always bring up something they are thinking of improving (myself included).

    There’s some good notes in here, and there might be some clever way to improve the nuts/nut traps, but obviously, nothing is broken. People are having fun and making machines dirty.

    But, as there is a group of smart people in these forums, you’ll always be hearing about it Ryan.

    I personally wouldn’t mind moving completely to metric hardware (ducks).

    #110906

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    All I can honestly say for certain is I have dropped the ball. I do have notepads full of ideas, a company wanting to commission a open sourced machine of my design, and lots of amazing feedback to act on. Sadly I have been packaging orders and parts since the big move in Feb and losing my part time helper.

    I am an engineer first and should not be sitting on a stool bagging bolts. This is the first issue I am working on, then back to making new fun stuff! and….also updating instructions and stuff… My business savvy is worse than my social skills.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Ryan.
    #110908

    thesfreader
    Participant

    WRT Metric vs imperial, I’ve seen the proposition to put one side imperial nuttrap, the other metric trap. Would it be compatible with the screw heads on the other side ?

    #110909

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I have not doubled checked but I am pretty sure I tried, the tiny M4 nuts are not big enough for a US screw head.

    #110913

    dkj4linux
    Participant

    .. I personally wouldn’t mind moving completely to metric hardware (ducks).

    Me, too! (also ducks… hey, Jeff! which way did you go?)

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