The Carver's MP3DP

This topic contains 242 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Jeffeb3 6 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 61 through 90 (of 243 total)
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  • #73612

    Kelly D
    Participant

    The parts came from my pusher ; )

    You know that saying “I can’t get a job because I don’t have experience. I can’t get experience because I can’t get a job.”? Well, my dilemma was “I can’t print the 3d parts because I don’t have a 3d printer. I can’t get a 3D printer because I can’t print the parts.” Hahaha….so I jumped in with both feet (and the blind confidence one can get after successfully getting the hang of an MPCNC) and ordered the printed parts from V1.

    Ryan gave fair warning in the description – “If you just want to open a box and have a ready 3D printer there are a few solid options out there. The MP3DP V2 is a printer for those of you that want to build one, get your hands dirty, and learn a thing or two!”

    I’ve learned a thing or two.

    Or two hundred and seventy two!

    #73619

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Oh – and the direct “why” I built it…I need to build up (Fusion) and print a tool mount for my Makitas so I can get the drop table MPCNC cutting ice for me. I was going to convert the MPCNC to 3DP as some have but once I got into it I realized all I was really missing between conversion and a standalone were a few more stepper motors, a couple lead screws and another miniRambo.

    (And another LCD, and a power supply, and a bunch of screws and bolts and nuts and oddball Molex connectors and, and, and….hahaha)

    #73625

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Aha. Well, you’re doing great for a first timer. By the time you get your first print, you’ll know more than most people who have owned an ultimaker for a year :D.

    So, you’re about to hit the biggest hurdle, which is the first layer. The 3D printer will almost always do fine if you get the first layer down right. You need adhesion, so it will stay put, and you also need it to not warp. Warping is caused by the plastic being layed down hot, and then cooling. Layers that are thin in some places and thick in others will cause warp. This is why the first layer, which is only 0.2mm or so thick, is so important. An error of 0.1mm is 50% difference…

    For starting, try something not too tall, and pretty wide (20mmx20mm is about right), so you can spend lots of time watching the first layer print. You’re going to spend a lot of time watching the first layer print. If it’s very very low, then the layer will be almost translucent, totally smooshed. Very very high and it won’t stick, it will just curl behind the nozzle. When you get closer than that, a little smooshed is OK when you’re learning, and it will have an “elephant’s foot” effect, of the first layer being wider than the next. After some experience, you can tune that out. You’re going to really work on tuning the screws of the print bed to have a good level surface as wide as possible. Then you can start printing up, and working on fine tuned extrusion or temperature issues.

    Here is another good resource with a ton of things that can go wrong: https://reprap.org/wiki/Print_Troubleshooting_Pictorial_Guide

    Posting pictures here of print failures will give us a good laugh, err…. I mean, will help us point you in the right direction. Ryan has printed more than anyone, probably, so he will know right away from a pic.

    I would use slic3r, the prusa edition to get started, but the print speeds they have as defaults are very high. I think Ryan has his slic3r settings posted here somewhere…

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    #73629

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Posting pictures here of print failures will give us a good laugh, err…. I mean, will help us point you in the right direction..

    Always happy to inspire…I hope I don’t disappoint everyone with flawless results right for the first go! ; )

    I would use slic3r, the prusa edition to get started, but the print speeds they have as defaults are very high. I think Ryan has his slic3r settings posted here somewhere…

    Downloaded and configured to match Ryan’s screen shots. The software seems pretty easy to work with thus far. I sliced a few STLs I had on the PC to play with it. I guess the trick is getting the printer to mimic the previews…..

    In the guide you originally posted it went on and on about rates and speeds etc in particular with the federate of the extruder. Do I need to go through all of that or can I just trust the preset numbers Ryan posted? I’d really love to not pull the hot end off. I think of all the things that made me nervous the seating of the nozzle to the hot end was perhaps the biggie for me. Or should I just get over it and face the reality that that thing will be on an off like the kids’ bedroom lights when they are supposed to be going to sleep

    #73636

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I guess the trick is getting the printer to mimic the previews…..

    Haha.

    Do I need to go through all of that or can I just trust the preset numbers Ryan posted?

    You don’t have to take the extruder it nozzle off. I would tune the extruder steps/mm, but you don’t have to worry about rates. Every extruder seems a little different. For now, just make sure the amount of filament going in is what you asked for. You can make a mark at 25mm, extruded 20mm and make sure there are 5mm left. There are a ton of guides and videos about it. It is a little dependent on the temps. If you’re a little too cold, it will extrude a little less.

    #73637

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    You two have the best attitudes….and make me laugh.

    I would say focus on getting it printing good first there are many ways we can tweak those lights, some are baked into the firmware and can do fancy things.

    I’m guessing the Zrods are good now?

    Lets see a first layer…..we can get you going from there…how exciting a first time printer! I can suggest using 0.32mm as a first layer thickness and 50% as your first layer speed. The rest of my guide stands….until you get printing.

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    #73643

    Kelly D
    Participant

    You two have the best attitudes….and make me laugh.

    I’m guessing the Zrods are good now?

    A little more of that automagic stuff, yes. I pulled the extruder off the slider so I could get a tape measure in close for a mm precise measurement. Once I had the extruder off I gave the right side a bit of a squeeze/tug and heard something shift. I measured and voila – had on. Put it all back together and things ran smooth. Reminded me of disassembling and reassembling the middle section of the MPCNC….not sure what did what but it worked in that case too ; )

    My new paranoia is cracking the seal on the filament rolls and what sounds like everyone’s arch nemesis “humidity” getting in and making all of your 3d prints explode the moment you say “Hey honey, look at what I just made!”. I may slip out to the MPCNC first and build a temporary spool toilet roll holder.

    #73649

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Nahhhh, PLA is good for a long time, mine easily sit out for two weeks before any subtle signs show. Other materials are a nightmare, seriously nylon is crazy sensitive.

    I have a good sealing tupperwear tub that I just keep long term open spools in and always drop in the little desiccant packs they come with.

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    #73663

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I think a few weeks is being conservative. It easily takes me more than a month to print a spool most of the time. I live in a desert though (Denver).

    #73664

    Kelly D
    Participant

    I have to say…I really love watching these machines (MPCNC.MP3DP) move around and stuff. As a kid I used to LOVE the trips Sesame Street would take to factories where manufacturing was underway. To know that I built these contraptions that are doing that kind of stuff is pretty cool.

    Now for the fun stuff. A friend of mine always says “The Lord hates a coward” which, to avoid the philosophical discussion we’ll just take as “go for it”. So I just went for it. Enjoy ; )

    And then I remembered I should wipe down the bed before I start. But I hadn’t. Nozzle set to 205, bed to 60.

    https://youtu.be/KQs6_bQlMcU

    So then I cleaned the bed and tried again. Success…..until…….(same temps).

    https://youtu.be/uyLm3_LSIKA

    So then I switched back to Slic3r, changed the first level speed to 50% from 35% and spit out some code for flat tests (searched “first layer tests” on Thingiverse). Looked good until…..

    https://youtu.be/nCYgcWSVRwA

    So what’s looking bad other than the obvious (to me) bit there?

    #73666

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    It looks like there’s way too much filament there (side note, is that PLA?). The width of the nozzle opening is 0.4mm, and the width of your extrusion looks closer to 1mm. It looks like there’s maybe a factor of 2x or so extra extrusion. You can also hear, when it’s printing the skirt, some click-click-clicking. That’s either the extruder motor slipping, or the extruder gear slipping, and the extruded filament looks a little start-stoppy after that. I’m not sure what’s causing that (the temperature might be dropping because it’s melting so much filament), but you want to listen for that sound. It’s not a good sound.

    #73667

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    It might be something wrong with the slicer too, like the filament width is set wrong, or the nozzle diameter is set wrong.

    #73668

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    The first lines actually look like a good height to width ratio, but then the next line comes right in on top of it… That is a really good camera view. Makes me wonder if I should put a camera on my printer, just to see it this clearly :).

    #73671

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Ha! Camera angle sponsored by handheld iPhone6. Catching selfies since 2016!

    This particular roll is Hatchbox 1.75mm PLA. I had thought the click-click-clicking was part of the program – it seemed so regular to me. There shouldn’t be any tension on the filament as far as I know (in case that’s a potential cause). Where else should I be looking to troubleshoot that?

    I checked in with Slic3r fearing I’d entered 4mm for the dia instead of .4 but it appears it’s in there as .4mm. The filament width was correct as well. That is unless there are few places it’s specified. Are there any settings that need to be made on the LCD?

    #73673

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I had thought the click-click-clicking was part of the program – it seemed so regular to me. There shouldn’t be any tension on the filament as far as I know (in case that’s a potential cause). Where else should I be looking to troubleshoot that?

    Probably the resistance is coming from the nozzle, and my guess is it’s because you’re trying to melt a lot of plastic, so it’s getting too cold, which decreases the flow, which causes the skipping. It’s probably just a symptom of the over extrusion.

    Can you post your gcode? What are your extruder steps/mm set to? Is it possible they are off by an enormous amount?

    #73674

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Here’s that last one as well as the Calicat which I’m sure you’seen the code for a million times in case it’s easier to spot there.

    I never did continue down the gcode learning path. I had signed up with some gcode wizard thing but as I got into it it seemed like it was just trying to convince me to spend more money to eventually learn what I thought is was going to be teaching me. Did you learn gcode just through slowly getting bits here and there or do you know of a good gcode learning resource? I’m all for teaching a man how to fish.

    Are the comments at the top in the gcode correct? It seems like that’s the overabundance right there….but it’s greek to me to a degree.

    #73678

    Barry
    Participant

    That’s definitely over extrusion.  You can see it squirting out beside the nozzle.  If you have the nozzle diameter right, and the filament diameter right, (you actually checked with a micrometer right?) then it’s a steps issue with the extruder.  It’s pushing too much out.  Which causes a crap ton of back pressure causing the clicks you hear.  It’s the extruder bolt grinding filament.

    #73681

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Sounds like I am going to need to buy a new tool to have around ; )

    I didn’t check the filament – just trusted the 1.75 +- .03……apparently not a good idea?

    I really feel like the first run wizard for Slic3r asked me the nozzle diameter and I typed in 4 instead of .4 but I don’t see it incorrect anywhere in the settings. And I guess if it was trying to squash out 4mm worth of filament it’d be way worse than that, no?

    #73683

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I looked at your gcode, and that looks fine to me. I checked the layer height, the comments about the extrusion width, and I even did some quick math on one of the long lengths. It’s extruding about 0.033mm/mm in XY, which is about right.

    So it’s something in the firmware. Probably your steps/mm.

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    #73684

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I didn’t check the filament – just trusted the 1.75 +- .03……apparently not a good idea?

    Don’t tell Barry, but I don’t use micrometers on my filament. When I get it close enough, I let the prints tell me if I’m over or under extruding, but maybe I’m wasting filament by doing it that way?

    #73685

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Here’s what’s in the firmware (I think this is the right line you need to see). And I think it might be the culprit……

    #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT { 100, 100, 400, 837 } //Aero-837 MK8-100

    I reckon I need to change 837 to 100 (just like it says right there)……now where did I put the USB cable I was using…..

    Remember that I used the ramps / MK8 starter from Ryan and compared it to the mRambo / Aero starter file (in case that give you a clue as to what else I might have mucked up in the firmware).

    #73691

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I reckon I need to change 837 to 100 (just like it says right there)……now where did I put the USB cable I was using…..

    Yep, that’s it. 8x moar plastic! That explains it. You’re probably going to need to adjust your bed a little closer now too.

    Keep that USB cable and computer handy… Some things are just easier with pronterface.

    Before you go printing again, check:

    1) That a move of 100mm in X, Y, or Z is actually 100mm. This isn’t a calibration step, the right number is something exact, like 80, 100, 200 steps/mm.
    2) Move the nozzle up a bit, just so there’s a few inches under the nozzle. Set the nozzle temp to 205C. Mark (with a ruler) 120mm (or 5″ if you only have a ‘merican ruler) above where the filament goes into the MK8. Then extrude 100mm (4″ is 25.4mm*4, so 101.6mm). You should have 20mm (or 1″) left above the MK8. You should be able to dial this in pretty close, within the width of the sharpie. If it ate too much, then your steps are too high. If it didn’t eat enough, then they are too low. You can actually predict the exact number with this equation:

    new_e_steps = old_e_steps * (100 / distance_actually_moved) … or, old_e_steps * (100 / (120 – distance_to_mark))

    When you get the new esteps, you can change it in Configuration.h, and reflash, or you can use the LCD to change it (it’s in there somewhere, I swear) and save to eeprom. When you’re finally finished, put the number in your Configuration.h, so you don’t have to find it again. You can also do all of this on the command line, with M92, and M500.

    Some people do this procedure whenever they change filaments, even colors of filaments, or nozzle temperatures.

    3) Check your bed leveling again. You probably need to be closer now that you’re not extruding 8x.

    #73694

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Uh oh….I’ll do that after the cat’s outta the bag (or spool) hahaha……

    https://youtu.be/9GDfKV6h-wM

    (Video file still uploading when I posted this)

    I used the piece of paper trick, not the “how much is your PLA squashed trick” but yes – I think based on the first beads it could be a fraction closer now. I’ll adjust the bed after this.

    #73700

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Uh oh….I’ll do that after the cat’s outta the bag (or spool) hahaha……

    https://youtu.be/9GDfKV6h-wM

    (Video file still uploading when I posted this)

    I used the piece of paper trick, not the “how much is your PLA squashed trick” but yes – I think based on the first beads it could be a fraction closer now. I’ll adjust the bed after this.

    What! Awesome!

    Two days ago, you had CNC firmware on this guy, and now you’re making ugly kitty cats!

    I think you’re still extruding too much. You can see when it’s making the infill on the first layer, it’s smooshing one row onto the last. The extra plastic is rising higher than the nozzle. On the first layer, this could be due to being too close to the plate or over extrusion, but I think the height looks pretty good. It’s like 10% over instead of 800%. You might also be a bit too hot, but I might just not be used to seeing things this closely.

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    #73712

    Kelly D
    Participant

    I did the unthinkable and left the machine running unattended while I went and got the kids from school. I promise I won’t do it again. I let the dog out so she wasn’t stuck in the house and I set an iPad up to capture time lapse in case I needed to determine how the fire was started so I didn’t make the same wiring mistake on the next build. That little cat took 56 minutes to print!!

    In true Halloween fashion the little fella was mummified a bit. I saw the edges (let’s call them jawbones?) build up much higher than the normal layer hieght and then slump over and finally get squashed down when the next layer went down. I don’t know what that means but that’s what it was doing. The bottom section – the vertical bits built nicely. Here’s the result of all I have absorbed – thanks to everyone’s help – in the past few days.

    1A9F798D-EF77-4B56-857B-2E8FBCD015BA
    909BAF96-98E8-4D67-8E67-B1279773568D
    45DC14A2-F000-486E-AA42-659A448547EC
    A8C2B0B1-890F-4097-94F4-A37A35383C9D

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    #73745

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    You built your own printer, flashed firmware, and got a decent print. You will have no issues from here on out that you can not easily tackle.

    I am actually pretty proud of the solid problem solving you have been through.

    Looks a little too hot on the nozzle (-5C)….or you forgot to turn on the print fan.

    #73802

    Kelly D
    Participant

    You built your own printer, flashed firmware, and got a decent print. You will have no issues from here on out that you can not easily tackle.

    I am actually pretty proud of the solid problem solving you have been through.

    Looks a little too hot on the nozzle (-5C)….or you forgot to turn on the print fan.

    Aw shucks. Now you’ve gone all soft on me…..hahaha

    I can’t take much of the credit. Problem solving step #1 for me has been to post here and hope someone comes to my rescue. Only when I grew tired of hitting ‘Refresh’ do I start digging and rereading stuff on my own ; )

    Thanks for the note about the temp and the print fan. That’s one thing I’ve noticed – no print fan. Is that an option that must be enabled in Slic3r or manually with gcode (M106?) or on the LCD?

    I have to again confess….rather than follow the instructions that Jeffeb3 took the time to pen for me (I will, I PROMISE!) I loaded up the LCD case print and hit the go button….I’ve waited so long to put the Sapele end caps onto something I couldn’t resist. And I feel its disrespectful to the machines to leave them all naked like that! Even if it’s a crappy print. Little did I know I’d be entranced by the sing song of the steppers for about four hours……welcome to 3d printing?

    As it turns out that fits my life pretty good. I’ll likely have it running behind me at my desk while I work. I just hope it’s not too much more productive than me – I might feel a job security threat.

    Anyway – about the temps…..When I saw this post the LCD case was about 2/3 of the way through so I tuned the nozzle temp down to 200 (it has been printing at 203). I’ll study the finished case closely and see if I can make out a difference. Pics coming in about 10 minutes I think.

    I’m also thinking about starting a pool. How long before I build my next one? Any takers? $5 gets you in? hahaha

    #73804

    Kelly D
    Participant

    Here is the CPLCD (crudely printed LCD). I’ll run through the fine tuning tomorrow and give the cat another go (daughter #2 wants one and they said I need to make one for mommy too). Funny I never measured that cat. I should do that I bet as well…

    Let me know about the print fan. I was curious why it wasn’t on and assumed it was an overtemp thing only or something. Like I would know. For all I know it only comes on if you’re drinking Pepsi instead of Coke while printing. (Hope I didn’t just open a can of worms there!)

    IMG_6052
    IMG_6053
    IMG_6054
    IMG_6055
    IMG_6056
    IMG_6057

    #73812

    Kelly D
    Participant

    One oddity. My wife was entranced by her first sight of the printer in action right when this (attached) dropped onto the print bed from the bottom of the extruder. I gather I ought to put that ack in? How tight – and what’s it’s function given that pretty much the entire LCD print ran without it in place?)

    IMG_6051

    Attachments:
    #73816

    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Thanks for the note about the temp and the print fan. That’s one thing I’ve noticed – no print fan. Is that an option that must be enabled in Slic3r or manually with gcode (M106?) or on the LCD?

    From what I see on the cat pictures the only real issue you seem to have is heat.

    I wouldn’t recommend you to drop the extrusion temperature down, it shouldn’t be necessary, 203 Degree is fine, personnally I print at 209.

    What seems to be your issue is that you probably forget to enable your part cooling fan. You should enable it in slic3r, there should be an option for that. You will need to find the sweet spot, too much cooling and your layers will not adhere, you will end up with a weak part. Not enough cooling and you’ll get poor results, just like that.

    Try to keep the cooling consistent all over the print, don’t use a different cooling speed for infill/perimeters, since it generally affects the nozzle temp stability (unless your nozzle is very well insulated).

    First, make sure your fan is connected properly. To do that, use the LCD screen and go to the menu: “Control”–> “Temperature”–>”Fan speed”. Set a value for your fan speed, click and then see if it works. Then you can try to enable it with slic3r and try a print.

    Also, you can tweak the fan speed directly on the LCD screen during the print, for that, whenever the printer is doing a job,  just go to the menu, “Tune”–> “Fan speed”.

    Other than this the results seem just fine, no apparent stringing and pretty much precise look. I think you also over extrude a tiny bit, but it is hard to be 100% sure until you fix the cooling issue.

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