Rotary axis MPCNC

New Home Forum Random or Off Topic Rotary axis MPCNC

This topic contains 53 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Mike Atencio 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 24 posts - 31 through 54 (of 54 total)
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  • #98339

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    In fusion you can use up to 4 axis (for free), or even define one of 3 axis as a rotary. Works out of the box from what I understand.

     

    Most just carve a flat project without bother to define an round axis and just let it spin, this works fine until you need it to precisely wrap all the way around. For that you need fusion CAM or better.

     

    Off to the hardware store be back in a bit.

    #98340

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    I think I found a video by LeoUrtiz that explains it better for me. I contacted him on his YouTube to explain how he made it work in detail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=ZUUMavkeaf8

    Thanks Ryan.

    #98342

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    Exactly what I want to do! Is there a Thingiverse file for that?

    #98343

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    Exactly what I want to do! Is there a Thingiverse file for that?

    I found this on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Nema-34-stepper-motor-4-1-K12-100mm-4-Jaw-Chuck-100mm-CNC-4th/32823648757.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.5.89cd7cf6Pbj4F8&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.99734.0&scm_id=1007.13339.99734.0&scm-url=1007.13339.99734.0&pvid=e7e3ec39-a1d1-4c6f-86ab-2ee4c3b60c44

    It’s got 4th and 5th axis  – $970.00

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QAXSwAT3cQ

    shows a rotary axis for $350.00 and it shows him programming it to cut the square stock into a round and then cut round into the shape he wants.

    So my mistake. I thought it couldn’t be done but it can. I got confused.

    Ryan. Thanks, I understood that it couldn’t be done after I downloaded the files to make the parts. I finally get it.

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98344

    Aaryn
    Participant

    I just skimmed through the thread.  But I think what Mike is asking for is a rotary axis.  Not a lathe.  A lathe spins at high speed and makes rounded parts. A rotary axis rotates back and forth and allows the router (or laser) time to do its work.  It can be used to make shapes like table legs that are not round.  They can be uneven in shape and even have detailed designs.

    as for the control software aka the CAM. Was EStlcam planning to that?  Or was it a feature in the past?  Because at one point in the setup I saw where I could enable axes X,Y,Z and three others.  Never played with it but I assumed it was there for a reason.  Never knew why.

    and I am assuming by this conversation that fusion 360 doesn’t do more than 2.5 D CAM either.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98346

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    I just skimmed through the thread. But I think what Mike is asking for is a rotary axis. Not a lathe. A lathe spins at high speed and makes rounded parts. A rotary axis rotates back and forth and allows the router (or laser) time to do its work. It can be used to make shapes like table legs that are not round. They can be uneven in shape and even have detailed designs.

    as for the control software aka the CAM. Was EStlcam planning to that? Or was it a feature in the past? Because at one point in the setup I saw where I could enable axes X,Y,Z and three others. Never played with it but I assumed it was there for a reason. Never knew why.

    and I am assuming by this conversation that fusion 360 doesn’t do more than 2.5 D CAM either.

    Yes! You are correct. A lathe turns. I am talking about the rotary axis. I thought they were the same. Tuesday, I’m ordering my MPCNC so I can start my business this summer. I need to have a rotary axis for some components of the Victorian bed I’m building. I’m going to use Aspire to create the files in. I just found out how to take a square post and have the machine carve to a round post, then carve the designs into the round post. It’s not as complicated as this thread became, but I am grasping all of the tech involved. Finally. I see this coming together. Thanks friend.

    #98348

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    FYI, Vector lets people download their software for free with unlimited use time. The trial version does the same as the paid. That being said, here’s a video of how to set up a file to use with a rotary axis: It made all of this so much easier to watch and understand.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QAXSwAT3cQ

    I thought you might like to check it out.

     

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #98447

    José
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    Have you tried https://github.com/fra589/grbl-Mega-5X

    This is a GRBL fork that can handle 4 or 5 axis.

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98470

    Steve
    Participant

    I was thinking of getting this one: 4th Axis Ebay

    I want to carve then print on a ABS pipe.

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98485

    Mike Atencio
    Participant
    #98487

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Don’t forget to include the cost of a driver to move that giant stepper, and make sure you have a board with a stepper breakout.

    The one Steve linked is not too bad, but I think you need to build a machine and get some serious time on it before you try to add a rotary axis, let alone spend 2 times the cost of an MPCNC on it. You are planning on milling wood not steel. So much to do and learn before you try and expand a machine that is not built. In a few months when you plan on starting your build who knows where we will be at. This space moves insanely fast. It is fun to think of all the things you might be able to do but if you are not careful you will talk yourself out of this because all of the added costs and complications currently involved. You want to make a bed frame, you can easily start with basic legs and add fancy ones later. If I am not mistaken you wanted to mill the entire headboard at once, a rotary axis and that sized machine do not mix.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98496

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    yup. that’s the plan.

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98725

    Bill
    Participant

    I’ve put quite a bit of thought into both the “4th Axis” design and a CNC lathe built on the MPCNC platform. They’re both very doable and most of the software is there already. The first uses one of the existing axes to drive the rotator and you need software that unrolls your design as if it were flat. I’d use Y for the rotator myself. This would be perfect for a dragon design milled into the surface of a cylinder, for instance. The second one is simpler and more complex than the first. Simpler in that you really only have two axes in total to deal with, X to move up and down your piece and Z to move in and out with your cutter. More complex in that you have to design a motor mount to spin your piece (you likely won’t want to use a DW660 unless you step the speed down by something like a factor of 10-50 and you can’t really use a stepper for spinning at speeds of 500-2500 RPM) and a new Z to move the cutter in and out. Otherwise it’s just a long thin MPCNC.

    My ‘internal to my mind’ design actually uses both options, with two separate X Axes. One is a lathe CNC where the tool is a chisel type and X moves up and down the piece, Y is ignored and Z moves the chisel in and out. The second X is off to the side of the first, the Z moves a router-like tool, the Y is a rotator and the Z again moves the tool in and out. You could, for instance, turn a block into the handle end of a pool cue using the first then cut a complex inlay design into it using the second. You could also use the extruder function to move your live center in and out as needed for your piece length, rather than just manually moving it and locking into place.

    #98769

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    I think you hit the nail on the head. I’m going to wait until I am more comfortable with the MPCNC but it is something I’m heading that way.  Baby steps. Learning curves and all.

    This is a tool like all my other tools.  I’ll have to figure a work around until I get the lathe.  If you get one, let me know how it works out.  Thanks.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98901

    Bill
    Participant

    I actually have a couple of lathes already, a cheap used Craftsman wood lathe and a Harbor Freight 7×14 mini lathe. The one I talk about above will be special built for just the pool cue building and tweaking purpose.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98908

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    I can see how it would be great to remove wood but what about micro turns? The X (or Y) stepper motor needs to be attached so it can make fine adjustments to the piece as the Z axis bit comes down to carve. How did you do that?

    #98914

    Bill
    Participant

    With a normal lathe you need to rotate the piece, position your tool along the X axis and then move the tool in and out on the Z axis to perform the actual cut. A Y axis move would only be used to position the tool in relation to the center of the work piece and that is usually done manually when you attach the tool. With the engraving lathe you don’t use a motor to spin the work, instead you use the Y axis to rotate it to specific positions. Since you are not spinning the work piece you have to spin the tool in order to perform cuts. If you are going to use a router or spindle for the later, you could also use it for the former, which removes the need to place the tool cutting point at any specific position in relation to the center of the work piece.

    It looks like a lot of the purpose built cue lathes use a router or spindle and a straight bit instead of a traditional lathe bit, something like this:

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98916

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    Is it tapering the cue also? That’s easier to understand looking at it.

    #98939

    Bill
    Participant

    Exactly. A cue taper isn’t just a straight line, it’s actually a fairly complex curve and quite a bit different for the butt (as shown in the video) and the shaft. Shafts in the US typically use what’s called a Pro Taper, where the diameter of the tip is kept back 12-18″, then a taper up to near the joint position when it’s curves back to straight. On the butt end the taper starts at the joint and gradually goes to the maximum diameter just before where a player will have their grip, then kept fairly straight all the way back to where the butt cap mounts. If there’s going to be a leather or linen grip then there’s also an inset cut to allow for the thickness of the grip. So, tip to tail is a straight line (at a radius of say 6mm) for the first 12-18″, a leading curve to get into the taper, a taper to just short of the joint width, another curve to finish off the joint width (near 10.5mm radius), then straight again for a short bit through the joint and another lead in curve to a taper that runs up near the final size (21mm radius), then a curve to come out at the final size, then another straight to the start of wrap when you’re cut down slightly to allow for the wrap (say 0.5mm less width), then come out of the wrap area to the final size again, and straight on to where the butt cap mounts. Under the butt cap is a step in to a smaller diameter and optionally threads cut for the butt cap to screw onto. Oh, and at the joint itself you have to step down to the inner diameter of the joint you’ve selected and also cut interior holes (and thread them) to allow the joint and pin to be installed…

    We won’t even talk about inlays. 🙂

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98948

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    I never realized how complicated a cue stick is. And to think I was most concerned with a warped cue all those years. lol

    Do you make cue sticks?

    #99026

    Bill
    Participant

    I play a lot and am trying to get to the point where I can make them at a hobbyist level, but don’t plan on going commercial. The description I gave is only a scratch on the surface of modern cue making. Custom cues these days are often built with radially laminated shafts (lots of skinny triangles glued together to form the cylinder the shaft is milled from) and cored butts (center cores built similarly to the shaft, with pretty wood on the outside). I’m more into trying a full splice butt (four angled pieces glued to another four angled pieces that end up forming the points most recognize as a standard cue) and solid rock maple shaft. 🙂

    Full Splice Outer
    Full Splice Inner

    #99041

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    That certainly is some challenging stuff there. I’m guessing the triangled blocks attempt to prevent warping with so many small surfaces glued instead of a single piece of wood?

    #99048

    Bill
    Participant

    Yup, it also gives you the chance to add colored inlays around the points. And it doesn’t stop with a simple full splice like those:

    #99444

    Mike Atencio
    Participant

    Wow! That’s beautiful.

     

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