Lowrider 2, 5'x10', Dual Endstops, Sensorless Homing, SKR 1.3, TMC2130

New Home Forum LowRider Your Builds – LowRider Lowrider 2, 5'x10', Dual Endstops, Sensorless Homing, SKR 1.3, TMC2130

This topic contains 31 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Ryan 1 week, 1 day ago.

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  • #97796

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Hey everyone,

    I somehow stumbled across the LowRider on the old interwebs last week, and have watched just about every video on youtube on it since then! Looks cool!

    I dont have a CNC myself, but have a very early Maslow (im sure you’re all familiar) which i was converting to an XY machine, but now just wont bother because this just looks so much better! the only upside on the Maslow is the fact it’s vertical for space saving, but with this i can use the table for other stuff, or hoist it into the rafters in the garage or something… Plus i dont want to design any more things for it… i just wanna print and build and have something usable!

    So thought i’d start a thread here as i have just spent $69.59 (NZD) on 6 meters of 1″ stainless tube!! so it’s officially begun!!! I pick it up this weekend from Auckland (i live in Taupo, 3 hour drive each way, for those who are curious) Figured i’d start there and print some parts and see how they fit before i commit to printing the whole lot. My printer is pretty crummy and wanna see if i need to give it a tune up before printing or not.

    Which brings me to my list of plans/goals/dreams so that you guys can set me straight before i get too far down the rabbit hole in the wrong direction!

    My garage isnt too big, so will build a small-ish version to see how it goes, and build a bigger version when i need it. Ideally, i would like to be able to cut 5’x10′ sheets. Im guessing i’ll be pushing the limits a bit there with the 1″ tubes?Β  One of the main reasons being that i built a teardrop trailer years ago, and want to build a bigger one… and will need a machine that can cut 1.5m (5′) wide panels ideally.

    Next, im thinking of using a board with 5 stepper drivers to drive each stepper with its own driver, and am wanting to use the TMC2130 stepper drivers? For 3 reasons mainly;
    – quiet (for when i want to use it with a pen or drag knife or some other silent tool)
    – detect loss of steps to tune in feeds and speeds etc and re-home if it loses steps
    – virtual endstop/software endstop/whatever you want to call it
    this way i can hopefully square the machine easily, and potentially do a ‘bed level’ and possibly z probe as well?

    Those are the main ‘weird’ things i wish to accomplish with it anyway.

    I’ll try keep a log of things here for me (or others in NZ) to look back on later with where i got things and what i spent etc. Though i assume the main thing people will get from NZ and might struggle with is the SS tube, which i just got πŸ˜€

    Anyway, thanks for reading! and feel free to explain why nobody else is doing the things i want to do, as im sure there are great reasons for not using 5 axis controllers and building 5′ wide machines etc, i just havent realised yet πŸ™‚

    Oh, and thanks Ryan for designing all these bits… much appreciated!!!

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #97802

    Barry
    Participant

    I don’t think anyone has built one that wide yet.Β  For most of us in the states full sheet is 4X8, so the table is roughly a foot bigger in both directions.Β  You’ll need something 6 feet-ish wide.Β  Through cuts will probably be alright though.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #97805

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    As Barry mentioned, the standard is 5′ span, amd you’ll need about 6′. 6′ is 20% longer, but it’s probably one of those proporional to square deals. So 1.44x more sag, and less rigidity. I think sag in the middle will be the worst. The 10′ length is no big deal if you can build a flat table that long. There was one user here in the forums with a table that big and they use marlins probing (bilinear bed levelling) to measure the Z across the whole thing.

    You can do 5 drivers relatively easy, if you’re comfortable with configuring the software. Adding dual endstops is harder, and since you’ll need to home Z to max, that makes it a bit harder on the low rider. IMHO, you won’t need dual endstops. The gantry is 6′ wide, so if you have a good reference for square (like the end of the table), you can get each side within a few milimeters and that is going to be very square compared to a 6′ gantry. I would suggest starting without the endstops until you log some hours with the machine.

    The TMC noise isn’t going to matter if you’ve got hearing protection on because of the vacumns and router. It’s not silent in the normal operating mode. The quiet mode has less power. I am not sure how the automatic step loss detection works. I use them in my printers and I still lose steps. I have sensorless homing enabled. I use a minirambo on my CNC machine though.

    #97806

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    And…. Welcome! I am excited to see what you make.

    #97851

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Hey guys,

    Thanks! and sheets here are 4′ x 8′ as well, but they have bigger ones too going to 5′ x 10′ or 12′ or even longer if you really want for somethings. So having the ability to go bigger might be nice! i may make the table extendable or something for cutting big things… (or build a second machine? that seems reasonable right? πŸ˜› )

    I will let you all know how i get on! looking forward to sharing my frustrations and hopefully my successes with you guys!

    #97852

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Having a giant table for a maybe project is not worth it. If you need extra length adding pins into your CAM is easy and you just keep moving your project down. Way better to have small rigid and fast everyday and dealing with pins every blue moon than dealing with a giant less rigid and fast machine everyday and no pins.

    #97854

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Valid point. The good thing is the only thing required to change it if it doesnt work is cut 2 bits of SS tube shorter, so i might give a 5′ wide machine a go and see how i get on.

    Im planning on cutting quite a bit of big sheets though TBH and wont do a lot of small cutting (who knows what actually happens in time though) but the dream would be to build teardrops for a living, and that means cutting 5′ sheet (semi) regularly, and would hardly cut small stuff.

    I wont build a 6’x12′ table right away, but i might build the x axis as the long axis and build a 5’x3′ machine or something just to see if 5′ is doable or not and will do a bunch of tests and see how it works out.

    First part is on the printer BTW! will test it with the SS tube after picking it up this weekend and then decide what colour to actually print everything in… because thats clearly very important!

    #98001

    Arnoud
    Participant

    Hi Ned,

    More lowrider builds in NZ. I also building one right now. Just screwed the gantry together.

    The SS tube was easy to find. Ordered from trademe and was cut to size and shipped to Napier.

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #98810

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    I had kept the second post as a place where i kept all my prices etc, but thats gone after the last edit… so here is a new one?

    List of parts i bought: (everything in NZD unless noted differently)

    Aliexpress:
    $46.09 USD 5 x Nema 17
    $15.92 USD 50 x Bearings
    $12.19 USD 3 x Lead screw (with nut)
    $1.35 USD lube
    $3.54 USD 3 x coupler

    $3.75 USD 5 x GT2 pulley
    $7.73 USD 8 x GT2 idler
    $12.47 USD 10M GT2 belt (type A)

    $3.40 USD wheel spacers
    $1.69 USD second type of spacer to try

    $65.75 USD bigtreetech SKR V1.3 controller with TFT35 and TMC2130 SPI drivers
    $9.85 USD 12864 LCD
    $11.40 USD zip ties (lots of them)
    $7.69 USD cables
    $17.42 USD power supply (24V 6A)
    $26 USD ER11 collet
    $2.06 USD 10M x 4mm Black Braid

    Aliexpress Order 1 total: $248.30 USD = $391.61 NZD

    $14.63 USD 2mm Router Bits
    $12.21 USD 1/8″ Router Bits
    $3.24 USD ER11M Wrench

    $69.59 – 3 x 2m length of 1″ x 1.5mm stainless steel tube. Part number P0007320 from Steel and Tube Auckland

    $53.67 – 4 x 60mm YAK wheels

    $89.57 – All fasteners (with 1 x spare of each) online at fasttrade.co.nz

    total: 391.61 + 69.59 + 53.67 + 89.57 + 30.08 USD = $649.92

    Left to buy:
    – Router
    – Table
    – Flat parts

    Already owned:
    – 3D print filament ($24.49 USD per KG)
    – Big Router bits ($49.94 USD)

    #98819

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Question…

    I had a second post with a list of things i had purchased etc that i was going to keep up to date.

    I edited it today with a squillion links (as it’s pay day and i went a little nuts) and it then magically deleted the whole post when i hit submit? I managed to go back and copy the post and tried to post it as a new post (like this one) but it wouldnt let me either.

    Is there a limit on edits? or limit on links i can post? or any such something something im not aware of?

    As an update, i’ve printed a few parts (like 3, not many) but they seem to fit well! and my printer isnt doing as bad a job as i thought it would which is nice. I have 2kg of black PLA, so that should allow for some failures haha.

    I bought basically all the bits i’ll need today though! which is exciting! just need a router and the flat pieces and a table. Most stuff is coming from china, so will be a couple weeks until its here, but thats ok. Im not sure if you make any money off of the store Ryan, or if it’s just a token amount and you offer it more so people dont have to hunt for their own stuff? I thought about buying from you as a ‘thank you’ but decided to source my own stuff as i was going with a different controller and found some different steppers with plugs and wiring that supposedly nicely connects them all… so with those different, it was easier to source all my own stuff (but has taken DAYS).

    There will be a ‘thank you’ order in the future though or a ‘tip the designer’ thing or something once the machine cuts something πŸ™‚

    I decided on the hard-to-find-information-on BigTreeTech SKR V1.3 board, which has 5 stepper drivers, and is wired to be able to run TMC2130 SPI modules without silly wiring. It also has the TFT35 module, which i may or may not use, and i got the normal 12864 LCD as well. I’ve also decided to get a 24V PSU to try because why not.
    A lot of this is to try get a quiet machine. Not because i need it to be quiet, but because i want to see what difference it makes so i can decide if i should convert my 3D printers. Plus, i plan on maybe running a drag knife or a plotter or maybe even a laser, so quiet would be nice.

    The only other thing of note is the ER11 collet i ordered for the router. Still no router, but that should be easy πŸ™‚

     

    So shiny!!!!

     

    #98840

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    The forums have some spam protection, so it will delete posts that have only links. I guess it also doesn’t like posts with lots of links?

    FWIW, Ryan’s full time job is v1engineering and the store. Buying from amazon through his links also supports him. Donating straight is a good way for non US customers to pay it back, because international shipping can get high from the US.

    Your pictures aren’t showing up. If they are coming from google photos or something, then they need public permissions. You can test what we see by opening this post in a private window. imgur is a good place to post public photos.

    #98845

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Cheers.

    Any way to get around the links thing? or add more other text and hope it works?
    Will get the photos working tomorrow πŸ™‚

    #98869

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    The spam bot is a black box to me, and to some degree Ryan. I think he can resurrect them though.

    #98944

    JJWHarris
    Participant

    if you need flat parts there are a couple of us in NZ who should be able to cut then for you…I still haven’t done an update but I’ve got a pretty nifty take design of you’re interested, it was about $130nzd for timber not including the spoil board.. That said I still haven’t got my lowrider 2 quite dialed in yet but when I do I’ll be posting some photos.

     

    I would say be wary of the steppers, I went the AliExpress route and they seem to be the biggest issue..

    #98963

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    That sounds pretty cool! Keen to hear what others there are in NZ… keen to maybe see some other machines IRL when out and about in other peoples areas etc!

    Im pretty dam lucky that i have a friend with a few CNCs and has already agreed to cut me whatever i need πŸ™‚
    His ‘small’ machine is 3000 x 1500 x 800 mm (~10’x5’x2.5′ for those in imperial land) and you dont even want to know how big the big one is haha

    Table design is a tough one ATM as im not sure where to put it yet, so not sure how to build it

    options:
    1) flip up on a wall
    1b) make it a work bench with an flip up/down extension for CNC work
    2)lift up onto garage ceiling (have a heigh-ish ceiling)
    3) build a big rolling table that functions as lots of other things
    4) do nothing until the last minute and build something totally sub-par

    But my links post has appeared (second post still gone though that was my place holder for it)
    And photo’s fixed!

    thanks all for input πŸ˜€

    #99015

    Arnoud
    Participant

    Thanks for the list Ned. If I had that a few mnds ago would have saved me lots of time.

    Fasttrade is also my place to go for bolts.

    The tubes you got are much shinier as the ones I have. This weekend I put the gantry together, and everything runs quite nice over the tubes. Next weekend I going to wire it up.

    Did you find a place where to buy vacuum hose for a reasonable price? All the ones I came across charge you an arm and a leg.

    #99073

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    I havent looked at vacuum hose at all yet. Im not sure what i will use…. might use a random spare vacuum, but hope to get a decent shop vac or dust collection system for the garage. We’ll see what happens

    Also, that list is obviously completely untested stuff! so hope nobody is using it until i at least build mine etc πŸ™‚

    #99447

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    oh yeah! first parts showed up in the mail! im excited!!! even though they messed up part of the order haha

     

    Printer still going. That honeycomb though <3 <3 <3

    dont mind me, just excited πŸ˜€

    #99515

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Getting there with the prints!

    Those are all 0.3mm layer height, 30% fast honeycomb infill on Simplify3D. So far have a decent amount left from 1kg but a few more things to print. Only one failure so far… and it was usable still, just diont like it. It was a XY Main i think it’s called? the big one anyway. It lifted SLIGHTLY on one corner, but also had a weird layer shift when the filament spool fell off the shelf and onto the printed haha

    I’ll see which parts break first, and will reprint them at 0.15 and/or higher infill etc but they feel crazy strong already!

    #101887

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Still waiting on a few parts… mainly cables and zip ties and couplers… Main bits are here, so assembly started last night!

    And these were on my desk this morning too

    I got lazy last night and used my impact driver to get the M8s started, and would tighten the last bit by hand. Got a little complacent and managed to squash a part and had to re-print. Not a big deal, but this is how much PLA i now have left from the fresh 1KG spool i opened at the start of this project… cutting it close!!

    Really need to design a table and start building that this weekend….

    #101937

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    forgot to print some vac duct parts… so had top open the 2nd KG of filament…

    Need to get a router soon…

     

    Also, note for people playing along at home, cap screws are too tall and the belt will foul! so attack it with a grinder and take 1mm off, or use some other fasteners…

    #105216

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    so, you know how i wanted to build a 5’x10′ machine? i figured i should use a piece of 18mm MDF to make a temp table to test it all out, so cut my piece of MDF down to 5′ like an idiot… but since its a temp table, i dont care… but that explains the silly ness you will see in the photos

    Building a table

    made a little jig for the cross pieces in the table

    torsion box build

    Probably should have done the numbers of total height, as i was hoping to put another 3mm piece of MDF on top… but not sure that will fit. Not much clearance left haha

    Got all the pipes cut to size and tighhtened up. Only snapped 2 or 3 pieces? haha… will have to maybe reprint them later i guess

    If i could give people one piece of advice though? DONT use the metric nuts and bolts option for the X/Z pipe clampy bits… unless someone modifies the design and gets rid of those captive nut plastic bits. It’s virtually impossible to nicely do up those bolts!!! seriously… so so so shit. Only thing i didnt like about the design.

    So next was making cables!! and im an electronics guy, so have a few nice fancy tools around to try do a good job πŸ™‚

    Having all the fancy tools doesnt make you an expert though… as this isnt the Z1 cable at all, this is Y1… idiot! so time to redo the lable haha

    y znd z cables done! hope they fit… as i wasnt home when i made them, so couldnt actually test fit them haha

    lovely cable chain as well…

    More later. Want to make my first saw dust this weekend!

    #105599

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    Copying my findings of sensorless homing the LR2 from another chat…

    I have a SKR 1.3 with TMC2130’s and dual endstops on Y and Z and sensorless homing on all axis. I havent tried stall detection yet though.

    With the LR2, there are a couple things to watch out for before you ruin your CNC, as it’s not designed for sensorless homing (or homing in general)

    1. sensorless Z with lead screws is generally considered to not be a thing you should try. It works, but you need to watch out! Prusa does it on Z Max so that they can drive the carriage up, and the coupler will be in compression when it hits the limit. To do that, you will need to put some clamps on your Z tubes to create a hard stop on the Z axis.
      OR
      you need to put a few spacers on your Z rods BETWEEN your coupler and stepper. I found 2 of the wheel bearing spacers to work well. Then you need to adjust your rod and coupler to take up the slack, so that when you home Z, there is no slack between the coupler and the spacers and the Z nut. I did this this way:
      – loosening ALL the coupler grub screws,
      – lower Z to home,
      – clamp the gantry down so it wont move
      – bring the lead screw UP until it makes contact with the stepper
      – lower the coupler as far as it will go so there is no gap beween it, the spacers and the nut
      – tighten the coupler to the lead screw and the motor.
    2. Now you can home Z and it works great… EXCEPT if you have just homed X, as when X is homed, you cant home Z as the x gantry hits the top bearing mounts on the Y plate! and when you do that, it will stretch the shit out of your coupler, to the point of having to replace it (ask me how i know grrr!)

      so, some solutions…
      – dont home all axis with G28 command and home manually
      – change the homing custom command in marlin to do G28 X, G1 X20, G28 Y Z (or whatever the right codes are) but that wont help if you press β€˜home all’ on repetier or something.
      – Put a spacer onto the x rails so it homes 10-20mm away from the mount but lose some work area
      – home Z higher, so it clears the mount (just add a spacer or 2 to the lead screw?
      – modify the marlin code to move X 20mm away from the home position after homing X and before homing Z
      – i think there might be room to cut away part of the X plate to allow it to home all the way?
    #105602

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    So, got the wiring done… Looks pretty good i thought!? didnt have enough to do X, so thats just dangling in the breeze ATM but more showed up today, so will fix that this week

    Here is a video of the first run of the LR2!!! didnt have a pen mount, and had my buddy around and we felt pretty confidant… so went with an engraving bit. Held the material by hand because we life our lives on the edge etc haha. It’s long, so just skip lots as nothing happens in the middle of the video

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/oUzT3uEpYHNwYCX97

    but this is it! a crown! we moved the board a little in a couple places. Took ages as it did 2 passes, but so be it… it made dust and im happy!

    We did another one where we tried to do a calibration square/diamond/circle thing, but X stopped working… figured it was loose so cable tied in some strain relief and tried again. This time it worked, btu did a WEIRD thing…

    It machined a pocket, then moved up 5mm above the work piece to move to the nexy pocket and then moved down to 1.6mm above to start ramping down into the piece again, but it only moved down a fraction of that, so it milled air for ages and the cut was only a couple mm deep. Then on the next move to the next pocket, same thing! moved 5mm proud (which was then 7 or 8 mm proud because of the previous fuck up) and then down but moved a fraction, so this time it even touch the material at the end of the 5mm deep pocket…

    We checked the G code, and it is fine. The machine says it things it’s at -1mm for the first pass, but it was still 5mm clear of the material. First pocket was perfect though, so makes little sense.

    Not sure if my explanation is garbage or not sorry… but i’ll spend a bit more time on it this week and see what we can make of it.

    In positive news, my buddy Cam who came and helped me was reasonably impressed with the machine! He cut my plates at his work, where they have some FANCY machines! He was a little confused when i was talking about 15mm/s feed rates etc and laughed at me when doing 1mm passes on the first run, as they run 10mm cutters at 18 meters a minute through a 3/4″ sheet in a single pass :O :O :O :O

    #105605

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    they run 10mm cutters at 18 meters a minute through a 3/4β€³ sheet in a single pass

    DANG!!! That would be cool to watch!

    #105608

    Ned van Geffen
    Participant

    DANG!!! That would be cool to watch!

    here you go then πŸ™‚

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gEhlyP8DDc

    #105621

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Needs it’s accelerations tuned!

    That is pretty awesome otherwise, looks like it can handle some crazy operations.

    #105624

    Barry
    Participant

    Looks similar to some of the machines in one of my client’s buildings.Β  It’s 5 axis.

    #105629

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Needs it’s accelerations tuned!

    Are you sure it isn’t? The bigger the gantry, the lower the accelerations, right? Maybe it’s just that big.

    #105709

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    It slows down so much for those corners and you can hear it screech. I bet it can go faster, but maybe it is tuned for metals? I can only imagine the cool parts that come off a beast like that!

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