My MPCNC made in China

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  • #57209
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    I have the beta linked on the firmware page. The changes happen almost everyday 5 or more at a time. You have to check in on the main marlin branch if you really want to see what is going on. I have started to pay more attention and update when I think something might be good for us. I have not updated the standard builds, I am waiting for 1.1.9/1.2 or Marlin 2 RC to be pegged.

    The biggest differences for us have been our dual endstops, better working LCD, accel & jerk. For you the autolevel has been revamped relentlessly for months.

    Ah, yes, finally saw it, I haven’t scrolled that far… My bad.

    I don’t understand shit on github unfortunately, this website is a total nightmare for the noobs. I think I’ll just wait for the official versions to be released, I really sucks when it comes to firmware and stuff. Basically I just have to get rid of this mintemp error and everything should be fine. Shouldn’t be a big deal though, I recall I already had this issue last year and managed to fix it.

    #57210
    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Here is the relavent section, with the somewhat current settings from 1.1.8.

    /**
    * Whenever an M104, M109, or M303 increases the target temperature, the
    * firmware will wait for the WATCH_TEMP_PERIOD to expire. If the temperature
    * hasn’t increased by WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE degrees, the machine is halted and
    * requires a hard reset. This test restarts with any M104/M109/M303, but only
    * if the current temperature is far enough below the target for a reliable
    * test.
    *
    * If you get false positives for “Heating failed”, increase WATCH_TEMP_PERIOD
    * and/or decrease WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE. WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE should not be set
    * below 2.
    */
    #define WATCH_TEMP_PERIOD 20 // Seconds
    #define WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE 2 // Degrees Celsius

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    #57211
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    The heater error is because something isn’t warning up as fast as it thinks it should. I remember seeing a comment that it started out too strict. It’s configurable in the configuration.h and since you’ve got a large printer, it’s not surprising it’s taking longer.

    What puzzles me is that I get this error after the print is finished usually. Never during the print of during the warm up.

    While you’re at it, check out babystepping. You can configure it to work with the z offset and it lets you change it in very small increments on the fly. I just adjust it during the skirt if it gets a little off.

    Interesting, I didn’t know this new function. Could have been useful before I’ve implemented the autolevel, but it wouldn’t have solved the problem of my bed not being flat anyways… I was actually doing a poor man’s babystepping by manually adjusting the Z height during the print, turning the screw with my hand until the layer height was “close enough”…

    Those prints look great though. Good job.

    Thanks, I’m super happy with the autolevel now, I’m not sure I could get a better first layer. Still need to do more testing but it’s definitely going the right way.

    #57321
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Calibration is always a boring process where you print a lot of useless stuff in order to be able to better print useless stuff later. So why not making useful stuff in the first place?

    I quickly draw a beer mug in onshape in order to help calibrating my printer. It allows me to see if the perimeters are well printed, adjust the bond between layer, test retraction and lattices, speed, supports and cooling setup. This part is both simple and complex to print (the handle is a bit tricky, with various kind of overhangs.

    Here is the result:

    During printing:

    IMG_4879

    Right out of the printer:

    IMG_4881

    After removing the supports:

    IMG_4882

    The supports were fairly easy to remove, I think I got them almost right the first time.

    The part looks a bit wobbly and the handle didn’t turn out great. I think the main reason here was that I had no part cooling at all. I tried using my air compressor gun to cool a few layers during printing, which apparently was making a big difference so I guess it should produce good results as soon as I ‘ll install one.

    But now for the main question: is it actually useful? Can it actually fulfill its purpose as a liquid container?

    Well the answer is…

    IMG_4883

    YES!

    I’ve filled it with water and let it on my bench overnight: no leak at all!

    So, that’s pretty neat, I think that’s a very good start.

    Now for the next step: part cooling. I would like to try a very different approach here. As I tested yesterday, using the air compressor looks very effective. Sure, you do not want to use it full blast, otherwise you’ll end up with a useless mess, but using reasonable pressure works very, very well. The good thing with the air compressor is that you can focus the air flow very precisely a few centimeters away from the nozzle, which helps tremendously while doing overhangs or for tiny print areas, like lattices structures. So my plan is to come up with some kind of solution using the air compressor instead of fans to cool the part right out of the nozzle.

    The advantages are: probably less weight and vibrations at the nozzle, a more focused and quick air flow, possibility to cool down the plastic almost instantly. The only inconvenience I see for sure is the noise, it might be noisier than just fans.

    Anyways, I’ll try to design this system in the next few days, might be interesting. I’m not really sure if this has been done already, so if anyone has recommendations or advices to give me, don’t be shy !

     

    #57358
    Barry
    Participant

    http://www.themakerhive.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=45

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    #57500
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    http://www.themakerhive.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=45

    Interesting, thanks.

    I wonder how it could perform correctly with such a puny little compressor motor, but eh.

    My system as I plan it should be a bit more complex: I’ll use my shop compressor, so I’ll have to lower the pressure and find an easy way to adjust the remaining flow automatically during the print. I’ve already draw and printed a prototype of my cooling system, which was actually quite hard for me to design, since it has a lot of internal piping to direct the air. I’ll need also to create some kind of servo valve, to be able to adjust the flow continuously. Lucky for me, I already made a working prototype of such a valve a few month back for an exoskeleton project, so I can use it again with some minor modification (dual flow command to single flow, easy).

    This is how it should look like, maybe, if it works:

    Nozzle-cooler-Assembly-1-Google-Chrome
    Nozzle-cooler-Assembly-d1-Google-Chrome
    Nozzle-cooler-Part-Studio-1-Google-Chrome

     

    #57507
    Barry
    Participant

    Those little pumps and coolers work really really well.  You really don’t need that much cooling, just enough to get it out of the glass transition phase.  Too much cooling and the plastic will shrink differentially and you’ll end up with bad prints.

    #57732
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Well, I tried… but I didn’t try it for long… It was just too damn noisy.

    I couldn’t bear the noise more than 10 minutes, plus the compressor had to work a bit too much, so I decided to ditch this idea and go back to the classic fan instead.

    I just added one fan now, the prints are way better already.

    The printer seems to be quite reliable now. I just have to tweak the settings for infill a tiny bit and it should be good enough to be fully reliable. Now the first layer is just a formality, it never failed once since the autolevel has been enabled, that’s really great.

    #60622
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    A few useful stuff I made with my MPCNC last weekend: some backets and boxes for the electronics of my electric motorbike. Those are the most complicated parts I’ve printed with this machine and they turned out usable and pretty much ok.

    Most of the defects were actually due to the slicer which is sometimes a bit stupid, adding too much plastic in some spots where it shouldn’t be needed. Anyway, I’ll sand everything and paint it later so It doesn’t matter so much. Plus nothing will be visible once the tank and the plastics will be back on.

    A few pics of the parts:

    This bracket supports the motor controller. I was surprised it didn’t fail since I completely forgot to put supports but it turned out ok, just needed a bit of manual massaging to fix some areas:

    IMG_4970
    IMG_4975

    That’s quite a big part, it took about 4-5 hours.
    IMG_4976

    Installed on my bike:

    IMG_5037

    Then I printed an enclosure for the battery management system:

    IMG_5043
    IMG_5045

    And this is how it looks like now:

    IMG_5049
    IMG_5063

    I’ve changed my battery for a new lithium one, extremely powerful (it came out from a giant pickup truck). Now the motorbike is really fast and accelerates way more than before. It can be compared to a 400cc right now, but I can tune it for 25% more power so it should be equivalent to a 5-600cc in a few weeks if everything goes well.

    The MPCNC was really a great tool for this project, super convenient to print these kind of things. You need a part? Just spend 30-40 minutes to design it, put your SD card in the printer, do your stuff and come back a few hours later to pick up your brand new part that fits perfectly. That’s a game changer for me, again, thank you Ryan.

     

    #60653
    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Your welcome Dui, thanks for sharing as always! As the project gets more popular there are more negative things being said, it is nice to hear positive things here from people that actually use the machine.

    I have recently been using a larger nozzle for my prints, made me think “Dui would be proud”! HAHA

    That battery connector you are using is the same one we used to use when I used to drive forklifts for Costco, something like a 9000lb battery, that connector could handle it. (In the early days we had to swap battery’s once per shift, not easy, by the time I left there the battery’s were able to last more than a full shift!)

    #60662
    Barry
    Participant

    Your welcome Dui, thanks for sharing as always! As the project gets more popular there are more negative things being said, it is nice to hear positive things here from people that actually use the machine.

    I have recently been using a larger nozzle for my prints, made me think “Dui would be proud”! HAHA

    That battery connector you are using is the same one we used to use when I used to drive forklifts for Costco, something like a 9000lb battery, that connector could handle it. (In the early days we had to swap battery’s once per shift, not easy, by the time I left there the battery’s were able to last more than a full shift!)

    They make a battery swapping lift.  Next time I’m at the client that has one, I’ll take a picture of it.  I’ll be out there in a couple weeks installing more cameras.

    #60663
    Ryan
    Keymaster

    All bets are off when the battery comes off the dolly, I watched it happen two times to the same guy. Scary.

    #60664
    Barry
    Participant

    It’s real fun when they shove a new battery in, and get the wires caught.

    #60671
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Your welcome Dui, thanks for sharing as always! As the project gets more popular there are more negative things being said, it is nice to hear positive things here from people that actually use the machine.

    Yeah, don’t bother with negative comments. The MPCNC has nothing to prove now, there are thousands of usable things being made with it everyday, the picture gallery and this very forum is a pretty good demonstration that it works very well when you do it right.

    People who trash talk it are just losers who weren’t able to make it work, because they didn’t know what they were doing or were lazy to do their homework and research. They wouldn’t do shit even on a Tormach. XD

    Now I got it 100% reliable as a giant 3D printer, I just drop the SD card, press print and move away to open a few beers, it works as flawlessly as my Delta printer and the only quality issues I still have are because of my slicer, not because of the machine itself.

    I have recently been using a larger nozzle for my prints, made me think “Dui would be proud”! HAHA

    Great! I really love the big nozzles, sure you lose a bit of quality but it’s fast and you get to see very well the printing process so it helps a lot for fine tuning any printer later. Show us some of your creations!

    That battery connector you are using is the same one we used to use when I used to drive forklifts for Costco, something like a 9000lb battery, that connector could handle it.

    That’s actually a “small” connector…. I have an other one which is at least twice bigger, but it was just too ridiculous… XD

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    #65979
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    It’s been a while, but I’m still using my MPCNC, and it still works pretty well as a 3D printer. I now have consistently good results with it, and my prints come better and better each time.

    Here is my last 3D print, made yesterday. It’s a bracket which is part of an assembly for a scientific research project of a friend of mine:

    IMG_5220
    IMG_5223
    IMG_5224

    It took about 4 hours to print, I could have gone faster but I wanted the best possible result.

    It is almost perfect now, I just have to do a few stuff to improve:

    -I’ll add a second extruder motor in parrallel with the main one: I’ve noticed that the print head moves a tiny little bit while printing, because it drags the wire from the spool. This seems to cause very slight imprecision and inconsistency of positioning among layers. The first motor will be next to the spool, and I’ll give enough slack between motor 1 and motor 2 so that the print head can travel anywhere over the surface freely. Since both motors should do exactly the same thing, the slack should be consistent all the time.

    -I need to square my print head perfectly in all directions. I’ve noticed that this is actually the main factor to get right if you want perfect prints. When the head is perfectly square and the extrusion is set up properly, you could print the top layer with almost no visible mark. I managed to get it right once and it looked amazing.

    -I need to modify my probing system so that it locks the print head in place during printing. Currently my print head needs to move because I use it to probe the table during the autolevel before each print. But once it starts printing I need to manually lock it firmly in placed so that it doesn’t move at all while printing. Problem is I need to be around to unscrew it at the end of the print, so I cannot leave the printer completely unattended, which is quite annoying.

    On the positive side:

    -The bead heating system works well enough to avoid warping, it’s pretty nice.

    -The autolevel works flawlessly. I never had any issue with the first layer for a very long time.

    -Printing quality is good enough for what I’m making, and speed is just fantastic.

     

    #65985
    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Nice, I have been wondering what you have been up to. …..Chasing perfection as always!

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    #65994
    Andy
    Participant

    hey dui,

    Going to use your water cooling instructable to mod my anet a8.

    Ive got it in an enclosure to prevent warping at night but the other day the whole enclosure got too hot and jammed my e3d clone as the fan was just blowing hot air onto the heat sink. before that the prints were getting really good. Got a new hotend coming too and replacement parts for the old one. Going to try bigger nozzles too soon.

    I found a massive improvement when I put my spools on 4 bearings in the dry box I had. I can believe that two extruder motors will really make a big difference.

    Great to see you posting again. Exciting stuff.

    #66000
    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I’ll add a second extruder motor in parrallel with the main one: I’ve noticed that the print head moves a tiny little bit while printing, because it drags the wire from the spool. This seems to cause very slight imprecision and inconsistency of positioning among layers. The first motor will be next to the spool, and I’ll give enough slack between motor 1 and motor 2 so that the print head can travel anywhere over the surface freely. Since both motors should do exactly the same thing, the slack should be consistent all the time.

    Interesting. I had a similar problem and I fed the filamemt through some PTFE tube to the print head, and attached it somewhere on the frame. The distance of the tube is constant so the motion of the head won’t change the tension. I thought about a second motor. I wonder how close they will operate since the interface isn’t as precise as the belts. I look forward to seeing how it goes. It’s like a direct drive bowden, almost.

    #66002
    Mitch
    Participant

    -I need to modify my probing system so that it locks the print head in place during printing. Currently my print head needs to move because I use it to probe the table during the autolevel before each print. But once it starts printing I need to manually lock it firmly in placed so that it doesn’t move at all while printing. Problem is I need to be around to unscrew it at the end of the print, so I cannot leave the printer completely unattended, which is quite annoying.

    What Slicer do you use? I add a little code in as a post process to move the X, Y, and Z to specific coordinates after the print has finished so all i have to do is walk up and pull the print off the bed. Seems like this would be easy enough to do. I use Slic3r personally.

    #66179
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    What Slicer do you use? I add a little code in as a post process to move the X, Y, and Z to specific coordinates after the print has finished so all i have to do is walk up and pull the print off the bed. Seems like this would be easy enough to do. I use Slic3r personally.

    I’m using Kisslicer, and I can do that too if I include a post Gcode.

    Problem is, I’m not entirely sure this will work fine all the time, since those coordinates might interfere if I’m printing really big objects and forgot to disable the function before or to edit the coordinates.

    Plus I’d still have to be there to tighten the screw before any print, and not forget to untighten before a new print.

    But it could be a temporary fix until I find a better solution, thanks.

    I’ll need to redesign my print head assembly to be more rigid anyways, it’s working fine but I think it could be better if the extruder was closer to the tubes (shorter lever).

    Next project is to print this thing:

    sadasd
    Untitled

    It’s a new version of my laptop arm. Nothing was really wrong about the previous version, but now this one should be more rigid and much better printed, the other one looked kinda crappy because my printer wasn’t setup properly at that time. I’ve already printed a few parts and they came up beautiful!

    #66186
    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Problem is, I’m not entirely sure this will work fine all the time, since those coordinates might interfere if I’m printing really big objects and forgot to disable the function before or to edit the coordinates.

    Can you switch to relative coordinates before moving? I guess it kind of depends on if you are using endstops. A move like G1 X9999 Y9999 wouldn’t hurt anything in my printer, because if soft stops. I think my gcode is something simple though like a relative X20 Y20 or something, then a jump up of Z5.

    #66190
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Problem is, I’m not entirely sure this will work fine all the time, since those coordinates might interfere if I’m printing really big objects and forgot to disable the function before or to edit the coordinates.

    Can you switch to relative coordinates before moving? I guess it kind of depends on if you are using endstops. A move like G1 X9999 Y9999 wouldn’t hurt anything in my printer, because if soft stops. I think my gcode is something simple though like a relative X20 Y20 or something, then a jump up of Z5.

    That seems like a good idea, I’ll give it a try 🙂

    #66512
    Jay
    Participant

    Covered the tubes with carbon vinyl to make them lighter. Very useful if you plan to use your CNC on a race track.

    Ha. I really enjoyed reading about the progress of this project.  I want to buy or build one for my son next year and love the versatility of Printing, Engraving, Milling, Laser & Plasma.  I need a large format printer like this!  Keep up the good work.

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    #66898
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Gentlemeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeens, welcome back to she shop.

    I’ve printed a few stuff this week, so I thought I’d share:

    I’ve almost completed the laptop arm version 2. Here is how it went so far:

    One of the two main arms bones, it took about 3 hours to print and came out close to perfect:

    IMG_5229

    The main joint where the laptop support panel and pivots are attached. I was worried that it would detach from the build surface but it didn’t move at all (took one hour and a half I think):

    IMG_5239

    The arm is now almost completed. I’ll just have to redesign the big laptop bracket part (the giant red part where the laptop is attached) and to re print the orange part in red, since I didn’t have enough orange filament. I was really quick to print all of these. I think it could have been done in one day if I didn’t have to work.

    IMG_5268
    IMG_5272

    The arm works very well, it feels way sturdier than my previous version. But it works pretty much the same, I had no complaint about my previous iteration since it was already fine, despite its flimsy look.

    Some details of the joints:

    IMG_5273
    IMG_5275

    Another thing I’ve made: an enclosure for my e-motorbike charger.

    The charger was originally a big 48V server power supply. It has been converted to 76V to match my battery, but it looked like a big metal brick, without any kind of protection. My garage is always covered in dirt, and the charger is often on the floor so I was afraid it would ingest particles of metal and die prematurely.

    So I just printed a few parts at each end, which includes some filters and some shock pads, as usual covered the stuff in carbon fiber vinyl to make it lighter, added a handle and voila. It took less than 3 hours to print everything.

    IMG_5262
    IMG_5263

    I’m very happy with this stuff, it works great, it’s convenient and the filters make it a lot more silent (servers power supplies are usually extremely loud).

    I’ve also installed my second extruder motor for spool unwinding, but I forgot to take pictures so I’ll be back and talk about this system tomorrow 🙂

    #66909
    Ryan
    Keymaster

    You are getting entirely too fancy with everything. They both look amazing, you are getting good with the CAD!

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    #66928
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Love the weight reductions bro. I add stickers to my car to add extra horsepower.

    Your laptop arm thingy has inspired me to make my own. As soon as I can 3d print again I will that on the list.

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    #66929
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Love the weight reductions bro. I add stickers to my car to add extra horsepower.

    Your laptop arm thingy has inspired me to make my own. As soon as I can 3d print again I will that on the list.

    Great!

    I’ll publish the files whenever I’ll finish the last 4 parts if you want.

    I need to create a thingiverse account since there are many stuffs I printed that I can share. You’ll need at least a 300mm build surface to print that, I think that’s the maximum dimension of the biggest part.

    You’ll also probably need a big nozzle, otherwise printing that stuff will litterally take weeks, plus it won’t be very strong.

    #67008
    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    So, as promized yesterday, a little feedback about how the double extruder system performs.

    First, I printed the brackets. It is just 3 parts, a clamp to attach around the stepper and a long arm to attach it to the spool tube. Nothing really special.

    IMG_5260

    I then connected the stepper in parrallel to the other extruder stepper, and used a flexible tube between bowden tube between the two.

    It looks like this:

    IMG_5279
    IMG_5281

    It was pretty easy and straightforward.

    So, does it works?

    Well yes, it does. It seems that the layers are slightly better aligned, but this is not a very huge improvement at regular speeds. I now realize that most of the imperfections might come from the slicer and/or the cooling.

    The positive things that this system does: the load on the Z axis is constant no matter where it is and no matter the speed. I did see some nice improvements on layers consistency when running at really, really insane speeds and accelerations (I turned the knob to 350% of print speed (my original speed is not slow at all to begin with) and 6000 (yes, 6000, this is not a typo) acceleration settings in the firmware. Well there is no problem with that, at least no mechanical accuracy issues, despite my extremely long Z axis. The only issues are due to the filament not cooling fast enough on some corners, so it’s being dragged a little by the nozzle, hence some imprecision. But it is way better than it used to be in this regard.

    The negative thing is that it seemed to lower the individual power of each extruder motor quite a bit. I guess that this is because they are wired in parrallel, I’ll build a little series adapter to check if this solves the problem. With less power the motors sometimes skipped steps (only at high speeds for very long paths), which never happened before. On the positive side both motors stays cold, while the extruder motor used to be crazy hot before (to the point that it was melting its support, I had to add a fan and a heatsink to cool it).

    I’ll do some more tests in the coming weeks:

    Try to remove the bowden tube between the two motors, since it shouldn’t be necessary at all. This should reduce the overall drag a little, both on the Z axis and on the motors themselves

    Try to disable the second motor and just run the plastic through the bowden tube. But the load on a single extruder motor might be too high

    Try different retract/prime configurations and settings.

    So far it seems to be useful, the improvement is marginal at low speeds (but still there is actually less Z wobbling) but seems to be quite significant at high speed. But now the real limit to super high speed seems to be in the plastic flexibility and in the slicer. From what I’ve seen so far, no slicer have been optimized for big nozzles diameters and for very high speeds, there are some parameters that I would like to change but unfortunately they don’t exist in any slicer I’ve tried. One of the most important ones would be to have some kind of configurable delay for bowden tubes (move the extruder motor slighlty before it should theoretically move, so that the pressure builds up at the exact right time), and different speeds depending on which way the path goes. If the extruder comes to a corner, depending of whether this is an inside turn or an outside turn the speed must be different, otherwise, for instance in an inside turn, it will ruin your print because the filament might not have enough time to cool of, thus being dragged by the print head.

    I hope the slicers will finally start to keep up with the hardware at some point, this gets a bit frustrating.

    #67017
    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    W.r.t. slipping at high speeds, in straight paths:
    Are you running out of heat? Certainly splitting the current will half the torque, but that’s the situation where the heat block will have the most trouble.

    W.r.t. your slicer improvements:
    Marlin has a pressure based improvement. Klipper also supposedly considers extruder pressure and not just distance. That might be a better place to fix it than the slicer.

    #67018
    Andy
    Participant

    Hey Dui, I would make it easier on you dual paralleled extruder steppers by making inserts for the inside of your filament spools so that they will roll on bearings around your inch diameter pipe. three bearing on a plastic printed C piece on each side would mean the unspooling would be a lot smoother. I recently made a four bearing holder where the spool ran on its rims inside of my dry box and its made a ton of different to the quality.

    I also converted to borosilicate bed and 8mm inductive sensor and the quality has shot up again. just waiting on the hosepipe of the correct ID for the water cooling mod to do your e3d mod. I have a set of new nozzles to experiment with which is very exciting to see how fast I can put an anet a8.

    And I got a fan thermometer controller (thermostat) to install on my enclosure then I can have the entire chamber temperature controlled so my prints should never lift, despite my unheated garage through the night.

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