I made another MP3DP…..kinda

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This topic contains 160 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Barry 3 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 61 through 90 (of 161 total)
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  • #51250

    Craig
    Participant

    I am trying to decide what to use for the milled part of my printer. What do you think about using 1/2 MDF? I haven’t worked with that material before but it looks like it might be a good choice.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #51251

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    That is kinda overkill. If you use the bottom part 1/4″ will work great for all parts and 3/4″ screws will fit nice. Around here there is fancy plywood “Birch” it is in between 3/8″ and 1/2″ (1″ screws). I think I will make my next one out of that so I can put a nice finish on it.

    #51254

    Craig
    Participant

    1/4 MDF painted Black? All the 1/4 plywood I’m finding is real wavey and looks kinda warped.

    #51255

    Craig
    Participant

    I did see some 3/8 pine plywood that was sanded both sides. Maybe I will use that.

    #51256

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    The bottom will/should pull and hold it in place. The other option is 3/8″ HDPE or other plastics, that is the one I have in the picture.

    #51260

    Craig
    Participant

    Menards has 4×8 sheets of 3/8 HDPE for $76. That sounds like a good way to go. Is it hard to work with? What kind of bit did you use? I will have lots left over but I can find something to do with it. Maybe someone on here wants to buy some at cost+ shipping?

    #51261

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Dang that is a great price. Gotta be some people interested.

    HDPE is super easy to cut, has to be the easiest plastic.

    #51270

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    1/4 MDF painted Black? All the 1/4 plywood I’m finding is real wavey and looks kinda warped.

    MDF is flatter than plywood, usually.

    Keep in mind that you just need 14″ or whatever on the longest dimension, so a 4×8 sheet being wavey is NBD. The parts will also hold it pretty square. I made my first MP3DP out of 1/4″ MDF and it is a little less rigid then I would like though. The bottom helped. I ended up installing 1/2″ ply front an back and it’s good.

    The HDPE is a good choice too though. It cuts a lot like MDF. Just clean up the dust. Little scraps of it are good for sliding parts of homemade jigs too. I don’t know how much it will cost to ship though.

    I just bought some 3/8″ BB PLY today. I want to design something cool to carve in it first, and I might try veneer, but I love Baltic Birch. It mills great, and the edges look good, unlike the cheap stuff. Plus, cutting the cheap stuff smells like the elephant exhibit at the zoo.

    #51285

    Craig
    Participant

    I am going to order the HDPE. There is a special order charge so the sheet will be close to $100. I want to use it for the milled parts on the lowrider I have planned also.

     

    #51287

    Barry
    Participant

    Hopefully it’s stiff enough.  The quarter inch stuff I have taco’d under it’s own weight when I left it in the barn.  Make sure you store it flat.

    #51292

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I am looking closer at these parts. I like the screws to mount the extruder this time. The clips were neat, but I think I can mount the touch sensor (or move the cooling fan) to these screws (on the back). I am excited to find all the little details that have changed. The location of the Z endstop screw, screws to keep the X axis bars in place…

    I think I’m going to have to start another build thread to put all my thoughts down….

    BAM:
    https://www.v1engineering.com/forum/topic/jeffeb3s-mp3dpv2-the-sequel/

    #51295

    Craig
    Participant

    I want to mount a BL touch clone. I got the MK8 extruder from Ryan. Any suggestions on a good way to mount that?

    #51297

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I want to mount a BL touch clone. I got the MK8 extruder from Ryan. Any suggestions on a good way to mount that?

    It will have to be a custom made mount, and Ryan’s not a fan of autolevel, so we will have to do it ourselves. I will eventually do it if no one else does, but with my current schedule, I’m probably looking at about mid-late 2018…

    Ryan has said this 1000 times, and he’s completely right: You can definitely get the same quality without autolevel. His machines print parts that he sells to pay his rent, so you can trust that advice.

    If you just think it’s cool, or you just want autolevel, then someone will have to make the mount. It shouldn’t be difficult, I just take a while with CAD. (((I think it’s cool, and I like the thought of it being leveled, but I have printed a lot without it too, and it’s been fine))).

    I mounted my inductive sensor in between the fan and the heatsink on the MK8 extruder. That would work again, but whenever I took off the fan, the height needed to be recalibrated, which is about as bad a manual leveling. This time, I think I will either move the fan to the back, which will free up the fan mount screw for a sensor mount, or I will mount the sensor on the back. The closer you can get to the nozzle, the more of the bed you can measure.

    #51300

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I really like the way the BL touch functions, If I were to add leveling I think it is probably the best option right now. I also agree with the previous statements. The BL seems to cost a bit much, I haven’t had leveling issues on any of my printers ever that required mesh, I really only have to level them after I do something stupid like or a printer rebuild.

    I also know if the printer is as square as I can get it and the bed is leveled properly, the parts will be as square as possible (kinda important for the MPCNC). And now in Marlin 2.0 there is a 3 axis skew adjustment. We can now make some seriously accurate parts.

    I am tuning speeds and accelerations for the printers now, I usually print at 30-35mm/s for part quality and strength. I was doing tests last night at 50mm/s and the parts looked super sexy just have to make sure they are still strong. The added speed and re-slicing to include variable layer heights should bring print times down enough for me to lower the price of the printed kits a few dollars….I hope. I am having fun with the tuning and how the parts look is important to me, right now the LCD is garbled though….dang it. So no release until I figure out if it was me or Marlin.

    #51301

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I have some nice print tests here, 50mm/s X is looking pretty good, Y needs some more tweaking.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bhsUZQTsscbJCEaJ8IVZ-QG_IlZiBq7Q

     

    #51308

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    There you go Craig, just send Ryan a BLTouch, and tada!

    I could really spend some time tuning the slicer. I just never get it perfect, and whenever I mess with it, I can get one part to look better, but the next one looks worse (or takes 3 hours, which I’m not against).

    #51310

    Craig
    Participant

    I have BL touch on my black widow but that’s a huge build plate that’s hard to level manual . I would totally buy a “3d touch” and send it to Ryan if he would make a mount.

     

     

     

     

    #51314

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I have some nice print tests here, 50mm/s X is looking pretty good, Y needs some more tweaking.

    Nice test pieces. Just try it at 120mm/s. I’m sure it will be fine.

    #51315

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    What screws are you thinking will go into the plastic through the HeffePlate?

    #51316

    Craig
    Participant

    Do you think using thicker material  for the milled parts would make the frame stiffer and allow for faster print speeds? On the printers I have now I print most of my stuff at 70-80 mm/s and I don’t notice a drastic drop in quality.

    #51317

    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    The more I see this thing the more I want one. It really has a sex appeal, I mean just look at it! Puts those anet a8 chinesium ones to shame.

    I too wonder if a thicker frame will increase print speed. My guess is yes, but marginally. The best way to make a fast printer is just to have less moving mass.

     

    3/8″ aluminum frame???? Yes!!!

    #51318

    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    The more I see this thing the more I want one. It really has a sex appeal, I mean just look at it! Puts those anet a8 chinesium ones to shame.

    I too wonder if a thicker frame will increase print speed. My guess is yes, but marginally. The best way to make a fast printer is just to have less moving mass.

     

    3/8″ aluminum frame???? Yes!!!

    #51320

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    If frame rigidity is the reason it’s bad, then yes.

    But there is also extrusion/heater block speed, and moving mass, and sticky/level of the bed. I think it all depends on why you aren’t happy with prints at higher speeds.

    You also have to remember that using one number (50mm/s) isn’t really telling the whole story, because some 120mm/s prints I’ve seen slow way down when doing details (as they should), but that’s never quantified. So, if you wanted to go to 80mm/s, just decrease the accel and jerk 🙂

    #51321

    Craig
    Participant

    Makes sense.  I’m sure I will learn alot building this printer, actually that’s a big reason I want to build it.

    #51322

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    What screws are you thinking will go into the plastic through the HeffePlate?

    6-32 x 3/4″ countersinks

     

    Do you think using thicker material for the milled parts would make the frame stiffer and allow for faster print speeds? On the printers I have now I print most of my stuff at 70-80 mm/s and I don’t notice a drastic drop in quality.

    Theoretically yes, but most the issue is the accelerations on the bed and extruder (mass). I am working on tuning today some time.

    You also have to remember that using one number (50mm/s) isn’t really telling the whole story, because some 120mm/s prints I’ve seen slow way down when doing details (as they should), but that’s never quantified. So, if you wanted to go to 80mm/s, just decrease the accel and jerk ?

    100%, tuning is getting very exciting on this one for some reason. I can’t find any really good info so I will have to sit down and come up a good system to tune with. Part, speed, quantifiable tests. To tune a fast 120mm/s part you have to have a large part and it just takes longer. So I figure tune at 50ish and then speed up when I think it is dialed and I have a firm grasp on what effect each setting is doing.

     

    #51323

    Craig
    Participant

    I think maybe I will make an aluminum bed mount. Might be a good time to try milling some aluminum on my MPCNC?

    #51324

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Might actually be heavier than 1/4″ MDF.

    #51326

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    100%, tuning is getting very exciting on this one for some reason. I can’t find any really good info so I will have to sit down and come up a good system to tune with. Part, speed, quantifiable tests. To tune a fast 120mm/s part you have to have a large part and it just takes longer. So I figure tune at 50ish and then speed up when I think it is dialed and I have a firm grasp on what effect each setting is doing.

    There needs to be a better way to visualize it, or at least get some feedback as to what the jerk/accel are doing. The slicers do a good job of illustrating speed in the preview, but they don’t show the trapezoid. Do they show colors for speed if you load up a gcode file? Maybe a script that edits the F speeds in the gcode file based on some parameters could change the F speeds, and then slic3r could display the output?

    #51327

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    I also have really wanted to have some indication of the current speed on the LCD somewhere. Like when it’s doing some infill, and you look at it and think, “How fast is that going?”, or if it’s slowing down for a small layer. Even if it updated only every 5 seconds, that would be better than nothing.

    #51328

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    The prusa calc page has the trapezoid for acceleration, it is a cool visualization. Really lets you see at what point it hots full speed and how long a segment would need to be to get there.

     

    Correct me if I am wrong please. Jerk will control when an acceleration happens, so a large circle should not trigger acceleration, a small one would. So a 10° corner probably won’t trigger but a 90° definitely should (for normal print speeds).

     

    So I am thinking pick an accel and a speed, hold them constant. Make a part with different angled corners 10-90° in increments of 10 on the X and Y sides. Tune the jerk settings first. This should show at what angle is low enough not to need the jerk (no ghosting), right? Looking for the highest jerk.

    This would be tuning for a common speed, anything higher would be a little worse and slower would be a little better? Or does getting the jerk right scale with speed, It should, higher speed into a corner =higher jerk trigger. Getting the jerk right should allow for a faster accel, I think.

    I think tuning the Accel just depends on a sharp 90° corner, too slow and it is round, too fast and you get the bump (almost a second corner). So to set accel you are looking for the sharpest corner, but it has to be a 90 to set the X and Y rates independently any sharper and two rates come into play simultaneously. Looking for the faster accel.

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