Discussion of Spindle Options (Comparing Makita rt0701c, DW660, and 500W DC)

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This topic contains 4 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Pierre Galarneau 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #93543

    Eric H
    Participant

    Hey everybody,
    I have seen questions about spindles come up relatively often on these forums and thought I would weigh in with some of my experiences. I have used the recommended DeWalt DW660, a 500W DC brushed spindle with an ER11 collet, and a Makita RT0701C Trim Router. I have tried to lay out some relatively unbiased pros and cons for each option below, but I will give my opinion here.  The DW660 is definitely capable, but I think the Makita is a better option if you are trying to improve the performance of the MPCNC (without stepping up to much more expensive options like a VFD spindle or a Kress). It absolutely chews through wood and the lower RPM options make it very suitable for metal and plastics. I would not recommend the 500W spindle unless you really need to limit noise and are only planning for engraving and light cuts.

    IMG_20190317_130540
    IMG_20190317_130558

    In short:
    Price: DW660 (~$50) < 500W DC (~$75) < Makita (~$100)
    Noise: 500W DC (59dB @ 12k RPM) < Makita (61-77dB @ 10-30k RPM) < DW660 (78 dB @ 30k RPM although the volume does decrease with a speed controller)
    Power: Makita (780W) > DW660 (600W) > 500W DC (500W)
    Weight: 500W DC (1.8 lbs) < DW660 (3.2 lbs) < Makita (3.9 lbs)
    Minimum Spacing from Mounting Plate: 500W DC (30mm) < DW660 (~46.4mm) = Makita (45mm)
    Collet Sizes: 500W DC (ER11 lots of options) > DW660 (1/8” and ¼”) >Makita (1/4” although there are some 3rd party options)
    Speed control: Makita (10k-30k RPM) > 500w DC (5k-12k RPM) > DW660 (30k RPM or ?-30k RPM with triac)

    More Info:
    DW660:
    This router works well, and I was able to easily cut wood and plastic, as well as a little aluminum.I hooked up a triac dimmer in line with the router to give me some speed control. I found that this helped to reduce speed and limit noise. However, this method definitely seems to limit the torque and I would often hear the spindle slow down pretty dramatically during heavy cuts if I had the dimmer below ~80%. This drop in RPM resulted in a rapid increase in chipload, exacerbating the problem and leading to chatter and some pretty gnarly cuts. This is can be completely overcome with careful CAM, but it does limit the material removal rate you can achieve. Overall, this spindle definitely has the most power per dollar and is a great option for the MPCNC, but the lack of speed control (could be solved by Ryan’s PID) limits its performance.

    500W DC Spindle:
    I work out of the basement in a house with a few roommates and I found that the DW660 was too loud to use many times after work. I purchased a 500W DC spindle on Bandgood and gave it a shot. This is far and away the quietest option, although everything makes noise whIle cutting. Right away I ran into issues with chatter. I found that I needed to drastically cut back on my feeds and axial and radial DOC, and even then I ran into issues with vibration and chatter. I initially blamed the chatter on flex in the z-axis, but after extensive tuning and redesigning mounts to get as close to the axis as possible (green mount below) I was still running into chatter. I should probably check the runout. As with the DW660, careful CAM can definitely overcome some of these issues, but I am just unsatisfied with the performance at this point.

    Some additional discussion of this spindle including a documented teardown: https://www.v1engineering.com/forum/topic/500w-12000rpm-spindle-not-enough/

    Compare-Spindle-Mounts-v1

    Makita RT0701C:
    I initially assumed that trim routers were too large, and would stick out too far from the z axis, but after picking this model up at the hardware store I was impressed by the small size. All of the mounts on Thingverse seemed to space it needlessly far from the z-axis, but after a little CAD work I was able to get a design together (blue mount above) that puts it ~1.5 mm closer to the axis than the DW660 (red mount above). I have been very impressed by the power of this router and have been able to cut faster and deeper without any loss of RPM. This router is just as loud as the DW660 at full speed, but when you turn it down the noise drops off significantly and it is much quieter than the DW660 (even with a triac). The router doesn’t come with a 1/8” collet and they are pretty pricy if purchased from Elaire. This option allows me to squeeze a little more performance out of the MPCNC.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #93557

    Aaron
    Participant

    I switched to the Makita recently, from the 611, because of its 10k rpm minimum speed, much more useful, IMO. I just use the collet reducer from rockler to get it down to 1/8″ it’s literally like $5 and worked great on my 611 and the Makita.

    #93570

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Nice, thanks for that info. I will have to try one one of these days. I assumed the big hand end of it would push it out further than the 660, awesome that you actually got it a little closer.

    #93583

    Eric H
    Participant

    Aaron: Thanks for the tip. I just ordered a reducer and will give that a shot.

    Ryan: It is barely closer than the 660 mounts, and I used absolutely all the clearance I had between the bolts from the XYZ plates.  I am using the slightly older 525 version, but I would assume it will work with the Burly edition too (the bolt locations appear identical).

    If anyone is interested I just put the model up on Thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3500550

    Has anyone tried out one of the clones they make of the Makita (Katsu, MLCS Rocky, Powermax etc)? They make the price much more comparable (~$50-70), but I have no idea if the quality is up to the standards of these name brands.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #94532

    Pierre Galarneau
    Participant

    Hello and thank you i have already read and ca my help but I would really like a spindle but a lot of choice I would like information only on the spindle and not on the router kind dw660 I already have the information

    thanks again
    Pierre

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