Bleeding paint

New Home Forum Things You Have Made Bleeding paint

This topic contains 26 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Tom 1 month ago.

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  • #106364

    Magnus Hacker
    Participant

    So I managed to finish the first sign, but I’m having problems with the paint bleeding into the fibers of the wood. I applied 2-3 coats of spray lacquer but it didn’t help. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid this? The material is soft pine.

    I sanded the wood, cut it on the MPCNC and then applied the lacquer. After letting it dry for an hour or so I spray painted and then used the MPCNC again to cut the top 0.2mm off (I have no orbital sander so this was the easiest approach).

    Perhaps I used the wrong products. I used nitrocellulose lacquer which isn’t maybe the best choice but that’s what I had quick access to.

    #106367

    Jamie
    Participant

    I would have expected your approach to work, but maybe the paint has a solvent that dissolves the lacquer.

    I have used Elmer’s school glue to prevent sharpie from bleeding, and it prevented bleeding but it runs when it gets wet.  Next time I was going to use Titebond waterproof wood glue, but I haven’t yet had that next project that needed it.  I expect it to work but I can’t say I’ve actually done it.

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    #106368

    Magnus Hacker
    Participant

    Yes, I’m suspecting that I’m using the wrong kind of paint. Someone recommended me to try shellack, I’ll give that a try.

    Just realized that we’re actually painting end grain, which is of course more difficult as the paint soaks into the wood more easily.

    #106371

    Aaron
    Participant

    So, clear lacquer, and then spray paint on top? Depending on the paint, there’s a big possibility there are mineral spirits or similar, which can mess with the lacquer. That’s why you don’t apply lacquer on top of general spray paint. 2 coats may not even be enough because it’s basically endgrain.

    I’ve used clear lacquer in only once scenario successfully, and that’s when painting on with brush acrylics or something similar.

    I like shellac, dries super fast, solvent is alcohol, so it usually doesn’t react with anything. What they usually mean is the zinsser’s (sp) from the big box store, in the can at least in the US. If you can get the Seal coat, it’s unwaxed. I only mention this in case the reason you have nitro is because you make guitars, and by shellac, you might think of the actual ones used for french polishing acoustics or something.

    #106375

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    A tip from a while ago was elmrs glue mixed with water. Polycrylic is water based, so it would probably work too.

    Looks like a neat project.

    #106402

    Todd Hansen
    Participant

    Magnus,

    I have had the same problem with a number of my projects.  I have a process that is working for me on the signs I have been cutting.  The paint I have been using is Rust-oleum spray cans from Home Depot.

    1. Spray on two coats of clear gloss and let dry before cutting.
    2. Cut sign
    3. Spray on two more coats of clear gloss and let dry.  This is a heavy coat making sure to get down in the areas that are cut. I usually let it set over night.
    4. Spray on color.
    5. Sand
    6. Spray on Polyurethane finish

    20181223_200628

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    #106486

    Turbinbjorn
    Participant

    Can the bleed differ depending on what type of wood you use?

    #106491

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    You can still get paint stuck in between the bumps if you have a bumpy surface, even if you have it sealed well.

    This looks more like the paint was dissolving the finish.

    #106508

    Tim
    Participant

    I’m picking up some of that Zinsser Sealcoat (really just unwaxed shellac) this weekend to try out. I’ll be sure to post up my results.

    #106512

    Aaron
    Participant

    I’m picking up some of that Zinsser Sealcoat (really just unwaxed shellac) this weekend to try out. I’ll be sure to post up my results.

    I also forgot to mention, and this may be a deal breaker, it’s a little difficult to sand if you don’t let it dry enough, it’s pretty gummy, even the unwaxed version. heat + Shellac = Gum. I generally used it with some kind of masking material that I carve through. It’s also my favorite finish since it dries so fas, so I use it on all decorative type items.

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    Tim
    #106514

    Tim
    Participant

    I’m picking up some of that Zinsser Sealcoat (really just unwaxed shellac) this weekend to try out. I’ll be sure to post up my results.

    I also forgot to mention, and this may be a deal breaker, it’s a little difficult to sand if you don’t let it dry enough, it’s pretty gummy, even the unwaxed version. heat + Shellac = Gum. I generally used it with some kind of masking material that I carve through. It’s also my favorite finish since it dries so fas, so I use it on all decorative type items.

    Oh no, I just took your post as a jumping off point. I did a lot of reading around the net after seeing dewaxed shellac in your comment since I’d seen it mentioned elsewhere. It just so happens that the specific brand/product you mentioned is the only stuff I can find locally that is dewaxed, haha.

    #106515

    Aaron
    Participant

    I’m picking up some of that Zinsser Sealcoat (really just unwaxed shellac) this weekend to try out. I’ll be sure to post up my results.

    I also forgot to mention, and this may be a deal breaker, it’s a little difficult to sand if you don’t let it dry enough, it’s pretty gummy, even the unwaxed version. heat + Shellac = Gum. I generally used it with some kind of masking material that I carve through. It’s also my favorite finish since it dries so fas, so I use it on all decorative type items.

    Oh no, I just took your post as a jumping off point. I did a lot of reading around the net after seeing dewaxed shellac in your comment since I’d seen it mentioned elsewhere. It just so happens that the specific brand/product you mentioned is the only stuff I can find locally that is dewaxed, haha.

    It’s the only mass produced, consumer available shellac in the US/Canada afaik, so that may be why.

    #106532

    Dui, ni shuo de dui
    Participant

    Pine is a bad wood to get fine details with paint. It tends to absorb any kind of liquid into the fibers.

    Thicker paint might help, but ultimately an other wood would be better.

    #108639

    David Walling
    Participant

    I just hand painted mine with acrylic paints.

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    #109955

    Magnus Hacker
    Participant

    I just hand painted mine with acrylic paints.

    That’s what I plan to try next. Just cut, then paint the cut areas and then sand?

    #109965

    Barry
    Participant

    I just hand painted mine with acrylic paints.

    That’s what I plan to try next. Just cut, then paint the cut areas and then sand?

    I used krylon.  Then hit the oak with a torch.

    #110348

    Kenny Carnes
    Participant

    Well, here’s my two cents. I did two carved plaques in maple. For the first one I grabbed a can of Krylon black and just shot it. Took forever to dry and never got hard. Bled like crazy and took forever to sand and you can still see bleeding. For the second one I broke out the airbrush and used Createx airbrush paint. (I didn’t use it first because I was too lazy to clean out the airbrush.) The Createx covered great, dried fast and sanded easily with no bleeding. No precoat on either plaque. You could certainly brush the Createx but Harbor Freight has really cheap airbrushes that would do fine for this application.

    Krylon spray can

    Createx airbrush paint
    Createx paint finished

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    #110362

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Interesting.

    #110621

    Clay
    Participant

    I tried putting down a few coats of shellac followed by contact paper. Let the machine cut out the design through the contact paper thinking it would leave a clean mask that I could paint through, unfortunately the contact paper tore out pretty bad and would have probably done more harm than good if I painted over it so I ripped it up and decided to just hand paint and quickly wipe off the excess.

    After wiping off the excess paint it was a bit too dark for my taste and a few of the small details were a bit lost so I sanded it back a bit. I’m not very happy with the result and it doesn’t look like I pictured it in my mind but it’s good enough to give as a gift and looks pretty good from a few feet back.

    Maybe somebody will get something out of my failed attempt!

    Before sanding

    After sanding

    #110636

    NVHEnginerd
    Participant

    I’ve been using 1shot enamel for lettering, bleed is substantially better/gone if I am careful. Coverage vs brushed acrylic or even spray paint is unbelievably good.

    #114298

    joedirt
    Participant
    1. Spray on two coats of clear gloss and let dry before cutting.
    2. Cut sign
    3. Spray on two more coats of clear gloss and let dry.  This is a heavy coat making sure to get down in the areas that are cut. I usually let it set over night.
    4. Spray on color.
    5. Sand
    6. Spray on Polyurethane finish

    The frame looks great..im new to all this and im trying to figure the process you used. How are you spraying on the colors in step 4 without taping and masking off??

    #114300

    K Cummins
    Participant

    He’s not. The colors are just for the engraved areas, so when he goes back to sand (just the flat surface of the sign), everything else gets cleaned off. This leaves painted engravings and plain wood everywhere else.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #114303

    joedirt
    Participant

    Polyurethane finish

    Ohhhhh so the Polyurethane finish goes over everything including the paint??

    #114315

    K Cummins
    Participant

    Polyurethane finish

    Ohhhhh so the Polyurethane finish goes over everything including the paint??

    Well, I didn’t write it, but I would assume so. The initial gloss coats are to seal the wood grain both before and after the engraving. The second coat also gives you some extra to sand off after you paint your design. Once everything is painted and sanded, poly the whole damned thing to encase it in a protective shell (and even out the surface finish). I would assume you would want to follow whatever poly surface finishing steps you usually take, including multiple coats and sandings for that buttery smooth finish.

    If you’re hardcore, you could even do some crazy stuff like fill your engraving with resin instead of painting it before sanding it back down (look for YouTube videos on wood/resin tabletops for large-scale abstract versions of this). That would work well for horizontal surfaces, although you may want to go with a sharper v-carving bit, or even a chamfered straight channel to help the resin hold. Or even just clear acrylic after painting to build up a flat surface.

    #114323

    Aaron
    Participant

    Hardcore, crazy stuff you say?

    IMG_20190503_190520_534
    IMG_20190203_180700_525
    IMG_20190316_231135_553

     

    Painting the engraving with a little resin before you pour the colored resin because it can bleed into the fibers too, mostly with soft woods.

    IMG_20181202_204650_894

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    #114330

    K Cummins
    Participant

    Hardcore, crazy stuff you say?

    I say, and will say again.

    That is some beautiful work there! Shine on, you crazy diamond!

    #114381

    Tom
    Participant

    JM2C – different clear coats for different projects. I really like shellac I use it all the time it does dry very quickly however I have never used canned shellac. If you really would like to use shellac the only way to do it is to buy dry crystals and mix them yourself. I’ve always read that shellac has a shelf life of 90 days. Often times shellac is labeled as a 3 pound mix, this means that 3 pounds of dry crystals are mixed with 1 gallon of denatured alcohol. When you mix your own shellac you can make it thicker or thinner is required. 3 pound is a good starting point it would be easy to brush it into your carved outline with a small brush and it would dry within 20 min. only lacquer based paints will make it soft. Enamel paint will not, nor will water-based paints.

    I rarely use polyurethane on small items because it has a tendency to turn yellow. My preference is clear acrylic spray which will remain clear even after a long period of time. If you’re building something for outdoor use, spar varnish would be the best, as it has the most UV protection.

    Another option if you’re going to use acrylic paints is to cover your work piece with PVC-E glue. PVC-E glue can be thinned with water to whatever consistency desire. However if you search for PVC-E glue you will find that people want $8 for 2 ounces. You can go to your local big box store and look for Phenoseal clear caulk. You can buy a 10 ounce tube for $5, and mix it with water until you have a milk like consistency. Brush it on and it will seal the wood.

    All woods are porous through the end grain. Probably pine up to 1 inch thick you can blow air through the end grain with your air compressor. I build a lot of air channels out of wood, the old-school sealant was shellac the newest school sealant is Phenoseal.

    For the lettering on the outer edge of these. I spray acrylic clear after the wood burning, carve, more clear, and paint the letter with a syringe and needle. I grind the needle point flat, I can completely fill the letter with paint and let it dry. The paint does need to be thinned a little to flow through the needle.IYQT9980-1

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Tom.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Tom.
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