Ben's 3' x 6' Rebuild with pics

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This topic contains 129 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Smith Hayward 7 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #77644

    BT
    Participant

    Is there any play in the mount between the router and the z-axis?  Or between the z-axis and the gantry?  Is the g-code correct or does it contribute to the issue?  These are the things I’d look at.  Can you post pictures or your g-code?

    #77648

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Is there any play in the mount between the router and the z-axis? Or between the z-axis and the gantry? Is the g-code correct or does it contribute to the issue? These are the things I’d look at. Can you post pictures or your g-code?

    Ill be able to check for play in the components in a bit. I’ve attached a file that should bore a hole out to 10.135mm

    #77651

    BT
    Participant

    To make sure I understand, the bit is supposed to spiral down into the hole, and then do a full depth finishing pass.  The gcode looks like it does that.  Have you measured the diameter of your bit and made sure that your fusion 360 setup matches it?  If the hole diameter is consistently 0.25mm smaller, then your bit size could be the reason (if it was 3mm instead of 3.125mm, for example).

    Is the diameter at the top of the hole the same as the bottom?

    #77653

    Benjammann
    Participant

    To make sure I understand, the bit is supposed to spiral down into the hole, and then do a full depth finishing pass. The gcode looks like it does that. Have you measured the diameter of your bit and made sure that your fusion 360 setup matches it? If the hole diameter is consistently 0.25mm smaller, then your bit size could be the reason (if it was 3mm instead of 3.125mm, for example).

    Is the diameter at the top of the hole the same as the bottom?

    Yup, that’s what it does! The endmill was the first thing I checked. It is .002″ undersized. Even when I accounted for that, slowed way down, and did two finishing passes, the hole is still small. About to go out and check for play in the mechanical.

    #77720

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Went out to bore insert holes, when I noticed that one of my end stops was missing. Went ahead and put the pen back on, found the end stop, and squared everything back up.

     

    Started drawing 3” squares to start. One drew fine, and then I swear the next one I drew was short by 2 mm in X axis.

    Been troubleshooting for hours. Can’t figure what caused the jump. Now when I set my X axis steps per mm to 100 the 60” rectangle draws 1/4” too big on X. In order for me to get a 3” square to draw correctly I have to put the steps up so high the 60” draws half inch too big.

    It’s got to be mechanical right? I’ve checked and adjusted everything I can think of  checked for loose pulleys, belts, tight bolts, motor issues  everything

    cant yet find why all of the sudden the X axis startes drawing short

    any ideas? Feeling pretty bummed

     

    #77721

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    What happens when you draw the crown (know good gcode)? Lets see your squares gcode to look for obvious errors.

    #77764

    Benjammann
    Participant

    What happens when you draw the crown (know good gcode)? Lets see your squares gcode to look for obvious errors.

    I’ll draw the crown when I go out in a bit. Looking for exactly 150mm wide?

    I’ve attached the code I’ve been using to draw the square. It comes out perfect on Y, but off every time in X unless I mess with steps per mm. What’s crazy is that if I put the firmware back to 100 it now is more off than it was the first time I drew it. And I seem to have to adjust the steps excessively to get the proper dimension. Then that puts the 60″ rectangle off by 1/2″ too large.

     

    Thinking of going out and flashing brand new firmware and setting up again.

    Could this possibly be a board issue?

    Could this be an issue with motor drivers? I’ve never adjusted them.

    #77781

    BT
    Participant

    Did you recheck the x-axis pulleys?

    #77794

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    76.2mm square?

    You are using a fusion PP I have never used, the Code looks okay but has a lot of extra stuff in there and only works on my very newest firmware. It has sticky speed commands.

    Either update your firmware or stick with estlcam for a while. I highly suggest testing with estlcam as it is proven. For a square you can easily just hand code it.

    I will try and make a new test Gcode sometime today with some dims or something built in.

    #77916

    Tony
    Participant

     

     

    Was your legs off??

     

    black-knight

    I had to. Sorry.

    Almost seems like a “pre-flight” checklist would be handy with items similar to what I listed above all put in order. I know it’s mostly written in the instructions, but I was just listening to a podcast about how checklists, even for seemingly simple straightforward procedures drastically reduce errors. 

    Was it “Hidden Brain”? That one just came up in my feed recently, though I’m quite a bit behind on those…just got started, really. I also think I remember one on Freakonomics, but that was a long time ago.

    Attachments:
    #77922

    Jason
    Participant

    HAHAHAHA, I don’t blame you that was my bad.

    #77957

    Benjammann
    Participant

    76.2mm square?

    Sounds correct. I drew and output paths for a 3″ square. That converts to 76.2mm

     

    You are using a fusion PP I have never used, the Code looks okay but has a lot of extra stuff in there and only works on my very newest firmware. It has sticky speed commands.

    I think I grabbed version 10 of the Fusion PP. Also I believe I’m on latest firmware. Anything I should be aware of? Ill take a look for the speed commands.

     

    Either update your firmware or stick with estlcam for a while. I highly suggest testing with estlcam as it is proven. For a square you can easily just hand code it.

    I’ve got so much time invested into Fusion it would be rough to go to estlcam. I’ve probably watched 300 fusion videos and output at least 3000 toolpaths for my Taig Minimill in the past year. It’s really nice to be able to CAD up a part, then keep making changes and the CAM updates along with it.

     

    #77963

    Benjammann
    Participant

    IMG_2398

    New people!  Repeat after me..” BELT * TENSION * HAS * A * HUGE * EFFECT * ON * MACHINE * TOLERANCE”

    So after struggling for the past two weeks with attempting to get my large axis machine to be accurate when both drawing a small 3″ square as well as a 20″ x 50″ rectangle; It finally occurred to me that some of the veterans here may have been laughing at me from behind their keyboards this whole time.

    After a particularly frustrating day, I went out the next morning for one more try. As I stood above the less than sufficiently perfect beast it suddenly dawned on me that this whole time I’ve been repeatedly tightening my X axis belts in an attempt to fix the problem, when the opposite needed to happen. I grabbed the scissors and snipped the cable ties, new ones in hand. I tensioned them to just barely take the roundness out of the cable tie. As soon as the sides went straight I stopped.

    With all my step per mm settings back at default 100 I cautiously drew another 50″ rectangle. The 1/8″ over tolerance condition disappeared. It was actually under 50″!  Quickly I gave the ties 2 more clicks to bring it right around exactly 50″, then excitedly drew the 3″ square; it was barely off tolerance as well! And in the same direction! After that it was only a matter of setting steps to 99.9 for the X axis, and then FINALLY both the 3″ square and the 50″ rectangle drew properly.

    Also of note: I slowed down my acceleration in firmware from 400 to 300, and slowed Jerk from 3 to 2.5. After these adjustments I was finally able to bore my insert holes, although they were still 1/4mm too small no matter how slow I went, or how many finish passes I took.

    I know these tolerances will not matter for 90% of what I cut, but I think it does for these insert holes. Now every fixture or part I put against them will be square and properly spaced.

    So to me, it seems the key to setting up your belts on a large axis machine is to use the tension to generally dial tolerances in, getting them proportionately off between a large drawing and a small drawing, then a small tweak to steps per mm should dial it in the rest of the way.

    (Hopefully, I don’t follow this post up tomorrow with the pen back on my machine. That would be embarrassing)

    Attachments:
    4 users thanked author for this post.
    #78202

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Now that we’re cooking with gas I realized that it really sucks to either sit there for an hour and hold the vacuum, or have everything get covered in dust. Trying a few different things. Drew up a bracket for the vacuum hose that attaches to one of the motor brackets. Hopefully allows the hose to gently arc and not stress the Z axis, then direct hose down to the vacuum under the table.

    It uses the two top motor screws for attachment. So longer M3 screws will be required. There is a hole in the top to allow for pulley adjustment, and the hose is held clear of belts. Also supplied the Solidworks file if anyone wants to mess with it.

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3261217

    MPCNC-VACUUM-HOSE-BRACKET

     

    VACUUM-HOSE-BRACKET2

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #78212

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Nice! Mounting the hose to an X or Y stepper will help.

    I have been sketching and trying to mock up a dust shoe I am okay with, tough problem for sure. Combine the two and we have a winning combo.

    #78220

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Nice! Mounting the hose to an X or Y stepper will help.

    I have been sketching and trying to mock up a dust shoe I am okay with, tough problem for sure. Combine the two and we have a winning combo.

    Thanks!  I printed this one yesterday. Going to see if I can make it work along with this bracket tonight.

    #78295

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Updated the vacuum hose bracket. The cable tie was touching the pulley. Also moved pulley adjustment window.

    https://sketchfab.com/models/ab059f5e6e684ebba193f35e17ff9717

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3261217

    #78666

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Here’s a few pics of the updated vacuum attachment. Getting a little more refined. Of course, endless tweaking to go.

    Having an issue where I would like to be able to pause or stop a cut in repitier and then return to zero point (not home). I am unable to do this without pressing estop. I need it to get out of the paused state so I can restart the job. I do a lot of test runs with the Z up in the air and then need to stop and go back to zeros. Any ideas?

    IMG_2498

     

    IMG_2560

    #78878

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Shamelessly bumping my question from the weekend since it didn’t get much action.

    “Having an issue where I would like to be able to pause or stop a cut in repitier and then return to zero point (not home). I am unable to do this without pressing estop. I need it to get out of the paused state so I can restart the job. I do a lot of test runs with the Z up in the air and then need to stop and go back to zeros. Any ideas?”

    #78885

    Trevor White
    Participant

    Hi, sorry for the slight hijack of the post but those pictures of your Makita mount and vacuum attachment look great. I have the same router and am currently building a machine. The mount I have not figured out yet. Is the mount strong and rigid? Are the stl files available?

    Thanks

    Trev

    #78891

    BT
    Participant

    Are you manually pausing the job or using the M0 command in your gcode?  If you are using M0, then you should be able to click the dial on the LCD to restart the job.  As far as moving to your zero point, you should be able to manually enter the gcode within repetier, e.g., G0 X0 Y0 F900.  Similarly, you can move the Z, but I’m guessing you would be positioning the cutter at the top of the work surface, so you’d need to use G92 Z0 to reestablish the zero point for the vertical axis.

    #78894

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Is the mount strong and rigid? Are the stl files available?

    Hi Trev,  This setup is farily rigid, although I’m probably going to change it in the future.

    Here’s the Makita mount.

    Here’s the dust shoe.

    Here’s the Motor top mount.

    Right now these items are working at an acceptable level. Still need to make a new skirt for the shoe.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #78895

    Benjammann
    Participant

    Are you manually pausing the job or using the M0 command in your gcode? If you are using M0, then you should be able to click the dial on the LCD to restart the job.

    I’m trying to just use Repitier to stop the cut when I need to on the fly. I could alternaly send and M0 from one of the presets. The issue is that once the job is paused, I can’t get out of the pause state. You mentioned I could do this on the LCD..  I haven’t hooked one up because I am using Repitier. Can I use an LCD and Repitier at the same time? I like having the computer hooked up because I make frequent changes and don’t want to shuffle the SD card. Also the LCD seemed tedious to jog the gantry.

    #78943

    Bill
    Participant

    In Repetier-Host you can hit the Pause button from the manual control tab and it’ll stop after the current buffered commands are finished. You can then use the buttons to move around anywhere you want and when you press resume it’ll go back to where it was and continue the job. The potential issue with this is that if you’re doing long straight cuts you might keep on routing for quite a while before it actually stops. Better is probably a M226 embedded in your code to do that pause, so you can have it pause exactly where you want, then use the resume button the same way. If you’re going to be doing a tool change, move off your piece and go to Z zero. Change the tool and move to the new position for Z zero, then do a G92 Z0 to reset zero to match where you are. The resume from there should move up and over to the starting point then start cutting at the correct depth. (I hope!)

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #78960

    Benjammann
    Participant

    In Repetier-Host you can hit the Pause button…   … then start cutting at the correct depth. (I hope!)

    Hi Bill,

    Thanks so much for the detailed write up  this looks very useful in certain situations. However, it doesn’t quite solve my issue. I’m not looking to resume the job. The issue is that I can’t make it not try to resume. I want to be able to dry run a bit of my path at a high z in the air, then stop the cut, return to zero, then restart the cut from the beginning. Not resume from where I left off.

    I suppose I could have a section of code that does this, but that won’t account for times when it’s an emergency and I need to stop the cut to make a code adjustment, then restart.  This could also potentially be solved by using a work offset, but right now I don’t have the job fixtured at a repeatable spot.

    In short, I’d really like the ability to completely stop the job at any moment (at the end of current lines of code), return to zero, start the job from beginning.

    Right now if I want to stop and restart I have to return to home, then move to X Y position that I’ve written down

     

    #78983

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    The totality of what you are asking for does not exist as a easy solution, because you should never have to do this sort of thing. If you need to do it something went wrong you will have to edit some Gcode, and be using dual endstops.

    Think of it this way, if you break a mill while cutting, typically the work is damaged and you need to restart anyway, or any other number of things. If you are using Dual edstops you can just home, edit out the part of the code you have already finished (just delete it) and resume after homing.

    If you want an air pass take the extra 10 seconds and program it in.

    #79338

    Benjammann
    Participant

    The totality of what you are asking for does not exist as a easy solution, because you should never have to do this sort of thing. If you need to do it something went wrong you will have to edit some Gcode, and be using dual endstops.

    Think of it this way, if you break a mill while cutting, typically the work is damaged and you need to restart anyway, or any other number of things. If you are using Dual edstops you can just home, edit out the part of the code you have already finished (just delete it) and resume after homing.

    If you want an air pass take the extra 10 seconds and program it in.

    Maybe I’m bad at describing what I want to do, but when you tell me it can’t be done I get extra determined. Lol. I got it! I hope I wasn’t just asking wrong and this is totally obvious but Ill describe what I wanted and how I’m getting it now.

    So the issue was that once I jog over to the workpiece and set all my zeros, I want to be able to go back there anytime and restart the job without having to home the machine and enter in the coordinates I’ve written down as the work offset. Sometimes I have to use the upper left corner of the work because because of how a certain piece is fixtured, so when doing a lot of testing it takes a long time to repeatedly rehome and jog there.

    I know some of this is due to being new to Repitier and working in mm and being new to what this machine can handle. This leads me to do a lot of air cutting to make sure everything is set up right and I’ve got correct speeds and feeds for the material. I’m also testing out a lot of different types of wood, so sometimes I need to immedialty change things once I see how the new stuff is cutting. Again, I don’t want to home and jog back to the work zero point. I just want to go right back to the corner of the work, make some adjustments and start cutting from the beginning again.

    So I finally figured out that if you zero everything when you get to your work origin, start a cut, then hit pause, wait until it finishes the current paths, then hit kill, it will then let you go to the work zero without losing that position. Then you are free to make your changes, escape the paused state and totally restart the job without homing.

    I have no idea why it took me this long to figure it out, but the time ill save not having to rehome and slowly find the workpiece again is worth it. Hope this helps someone else too.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #82139

    Benjammann
    Participant

    I’ve got a nifty idea for a pretty simple, unintrusive, inexpensive way to stiffen the X and Y axis. I’m going to draw it up, but before I go through the painstaking process of upgrading my old Solidworks assembly to the new version, just wondering if anyone has gone though the trouble of remodeling the latest version of the STL files into STEP or SW part files that they wouldn’t mind sharing for a good cause.

    Obligitory current project image below:

    IMG_2999

    Attachments:
    #87694

    Benjammann
    Participant

    A preview of my current lower XYZ Winged Burly print. Any guesses at what my machine looks like now?

     

    #87731

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Doubled up 2040?

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